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And businesses have to increase salaries when there is no supply of workers willing to work, right? When a person seeks employment they usually evaluate whether they will be able to get by on the wage that is being offered - so I'm not sure how that is different than what I said?
Show up at a no-skill job that pays $15/hour and tell them that you need $25/hour to afford the apartment you want, and see how that works out for you.
They won’t care at all about your individual circumstances.
Show up at a no-skill job that pays $15/hour and tell them that you need $25/hour to afford the apartment you want, and see how that works out for you.
They won’t care at all about your individual circumstances.
I never suggested that, not once - and I think you know it. I would never expect an hourly worker to even try to negotiate a wage, but they have the right to turn down the job if the salary won't work for them.
I never suggested that, not once - and I think you know it. I would never expect an hourly worker to even try to negotiate a wage, but they have the right to turn down the job if the salary won't work for them.
I didn’t say that you did. But in your post that I originally responded to, you made it pretty clear that you believed that an individuals cost of living should drive the wages of fast food workers. And you’re simply wrong about that.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd
The cost of rent (or any other expense) is irrelevant. Jobs don’t pay someone what they need to survive, jobs pay an amount determined by the interplay between the supply and demand for labor.
I was back in California in Marin county which is very expensivd. Fast food workers at in and out are paid pretty high. But other places that are not. It seems a lot of workers live elsewhere where rent is cheaper and commute in.
The cost of rent (or any other expense) is irrelevant. Jobs don’t pay someone what they need to survive, jobs pay an amount determined by the interplay between the supply and demand for labor.
... which in turn is a reflection of the profit generated by that marginal employee; MR=MC and all that; or said differently, the value to society per hour of the marginal employee.
I didn’t say that you did. But in your post that I originally responded to, you made it pretty clear that you believed that an individuals cost of living should drive the wages of fast food workers. And you’re simply wrong about that.
The cost of living influences the choices an individual might make when considering the salary that is offered. Is that better?
The cost of rent (or any other expense) is irrelevant. Jobs don’t pay someone what they need to survive, jobs pay an amount determined by the interplay between the supply and demand for labor.
It's not the cost of living is irrelevant, but that the cost of living is a determinant of the supply of labor in a given region.
If employees can't afford to live on the salary offered, they won't accept the job at the salary offered and employers will need to both offer high wages and charge higher prices to cover the higher salaries needed to attract employees willing to accept the position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
And businesses have to increase salaries when there is no supply of workers willing to work, right? When a person seeks employment they usually evaluate whether they will be able to get by on the wage that is being offered - so I'm not sure how that is different than what I said?
Raising the minimum wage is inflationary. To cover the higher labor costs, employers have to raise the price of the goods. If the minimum wage goes up, rents go up because all of the minimum wage employees have more money to bid against each other, so they drive up rents. The nominal price of everything goes up, but no one is actually better off.
If you want to raise the real incomes of poor people, you need to come up with ways to increase their actual productivity. Give them more education, training and machines so they can get more done per hour of work. If you do that real wages can increase.
It's not the cost of living is irrelevant, but that the cost of living is a determinant of the supply of labor in a given region.
If employees can't afford to live on the salary offered, they won't accept the job at the salary offered and employers will need to both offer high wages and charge higher prices to cover the higher salaries needed to attract employees willing to accept the position.
Raising the minimum wage is inflationary. To cover the higher labor costs, employers have to raise the price of the goods. If the minimum wage goes up, rents go up because all of the minimum wage employees have more money to bid against each other, so they drive up rents. The nominal price of everything goes up, but no one is actually better off.
If you want to raise the real incomes of poor people, you need to come up with ways to increase their actual productivity. Give them more education, training and machines so they can get more done per hour of work. If you do that real wages can increase.
I know how it works, yes I really did go to college, I was an accounting major, but rather than another explanation of how economics work, so why don't we discuss what is happening right now with fast food? Unless you are lucky enough to get an applicant who lives with mom and dad, they are going to be concerned about paying rent, so they aren't going to accept $8 or $10 anymore - they would do better at the day labor places. Increasing skills is wonderful but how fruitful is sinking money into additional training in how to flip a burger? Most employees in fast food know how to do their job, doing it faster would not proabably yield any significant results.
PS housing went up first and a good deal of that was due to corporations buying up thousands of single family homes after the housing crash. So many were purchased that they were able to set the price for renting or purchasing houses in a community. When people were priced out of single family homes they looked at apartments but now there was a real demand for apartments from the people who would have bought or rented homes, so the rents were raised, not only once but over and over again, ultimately leaving people with the choice of living with friends or parents or relocating.
I know how it works, yes I really did go to college, I was an accounting major, but rather than another explanation of how economics work, so why don't we discuss what is happening right now with fast food? Unless you are lucky enough to get an applicant who lives with mom and dad, they are going to be concerned about paying rent, so they aren't going to accept $8 or $10 anymore - they would do better at the day labor places. Increasing skills is wonderful but how fruitful is sinking money into additional training in how to flip a burger? Most employees in fast food know how to do their job, doing it faster would not proabably yield any significant results.
PS housing went up first and a good deal of that was due to corporations buying up thousands of single family homes after the housing crash. So many were purchased that they were able to set the price for renting or purchasing houses in a community. When people were priced out of single family homes they looked at apartments but now there was a real demand for apartments from the people who would have bought or rented homes, so the rents were raised, not only once but over and over again, ultimately leaving people with the choice of living with friends or parents or relocating.
I think most of us lived with parents or friends when we were only working part time at fast food places. This is absolutely nothing new.
And what about the older employees? They were married or had roommates. No one expected to be able to afford their own place on a part time low income.
It's just not financially smart to live alone and only work part time, anywhere.
I think most of us lived with parents or friends when we were only working part time at fast food places. This is absolutely nothing new.
And what about the older employees? They were married or had roommates. No one expected to be able to afford their own place on a part time low income.
It's just not financially smart to live alone and only work part time, anywhere.
Here's the data that I found on the age and demographics of fast food workers, (it's definitely changed since I was young)
Quote:
Sixty percent of fast-food workers across the nation are over age 20, and 1 in 5 are over age 35.21 Sixty percent of fast-food workers in California are Latinx, more than 80 percent are nonwhite, two-thirds are women, and 20 percent have children.22 The typical fast-food worker brings in one-third of their family’s income, and more than half of fast-food worker households spend more than 30 percent of their income on rent https://www.americanprogress.org/
It's a real dilemma for a lot of people who are left with the options of working fast food, cleaning motel rooms, or emptying bed pans in nursing homes. I think that when it's feasible there should be at least an attempt to provide low income housing for those workers. I read that China is building large numbers of low income housing so that they don't lose their low salaried workers.
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