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All that education and not a drop of love in the bucket. You want to find peace? The way you speak of and have dealt with your mother, wives and daughters is so lacking in love, compassion, and forgiveness that it's offensive. Maybe your father was the same, thus his absence from your story?
In any event, OP, be better and do better. All of the women in your life, particularly your mother and daughters, deserve peace just as much as you do. I hope they find it. You seem to be a very difficult man to be in a relationship with.
for those asking why would second ex-wife want to adopt his children,
in my view that shows her seriousness and commitment to the marriage and to the relationship and to the children.
it is a way of her showing this man that she wanted to build a family with him, not just through the child she hoped to give birth to with him, but also with the existing children. i don't think the man truly appreciated or recognized what she was offering and the value she had as a wife, as a stepmom and as a future mother to their own biological children.
however since he cheated on her, and sought to keep her from building relationship with the daughters, she is in my opinion well rid of him. she dodged a bullet. he is as others have stated lacking much with regards to building relationship. and the cheating wasn't just a one night stand or anything, it was an affair that lasted nine months while he was a married man; and it was with someone his wife knew. He is not marriage material. He is not husband material. He is not reliable or stable relationship material. it also makes me wonder if he cheated on the first wife while he was married to her since that seems to be an ongoing behavior pattern with him.
glad that he recognizes the need for more therapy, and may he one day seek it and receive it and benefit from it. if not for his own sake, then for the sake of his daughters. Because family patterns repeat. He is the role model being ingrained onto the psyche of his daughters, and his behavior sets the pattern and template and blueprint for the men they will choose to one day date, be in relationship with, sleep around with, marry, and subsequently divorce. Does he want his daughters to date and marry men who cheat on them and have affairs? If not, then that is his incentive to get to therapy and work on himself. otherwise it is guaranteed that this pattern will repeat in his family with the relationships his daughters enter into as adult women.
and as others have said condolences on the loss of his first wife.
i also feel like saying condolences to the second ex-wife for what he put her through.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 07-16-2023 at 03:10 PM..
for those asking why would second ex-wife want to adopt his children,
in my view that shows her seriousness and commitment to the marriage and to the relationship and to the children.
it is a way of her showing this man that she wanted to build a family with him, not just through the child she hoped to give birth to with him, but also with the existing children. i don't think the man truly appreciated or recognized what she was offering and the value she had as a wife, as a stepmom and as a future mother to their own biological children.
however since he cheated on her, and sought to keep her from building relationship with the daughters, she is in my opinion well rid of him. she dodged a bullet. he is as others have stated lacking much with regards to building relationship. and the cheating wasn't just a one night stand or anything, it was an affair that lasted nine months while he was a married man; and it was with someone his wife knew. He is not marriage material. He is not husband material. He is not reliable or stable relationship material. it also makes me wonder if he cheated on the first wife while he was married to her since that seems to be an ongoing behavior pattern with him.
glad that he recognizes the need for more therapy, and may he one day seek it and receive it and benefit from it. if not for his own sake, then for the sake of his daughters. Because family patterns repeat. He is the role model being ingrained onto the psyche of his daughters, and his behavior sets the pattern and template and blueprint for the men they will choose to one day date, be in relationship with, sleep around with, marry, and subsequently divorce. Does he want his daughters to date and marry men who cheat on them and have affairs? If not, then that is his incentive to get to therapy and work on himself. otherwise it is guaranteed that this pattern will repeat in his family with the relationships his daughters enter into as adult women.
and as others have said condolences on the loss of his first wife.
i also feel like saying condolences to the second ex-wife for what he put her through.
Totally right!
Seems that when he married his second wife, he really only wanted a housekeeper and nanny for his children, but he didn't want to pay for the servants he wanted. So he married someone to provide those services. He clearly didn't have any emotional or affectionate feelings for his second wife; he freely admits he cheated on her.
He refused to let any emotional attachment form between his children and their stepmother, who wanted to emotionally bond with her stepchildren. She is well rid of him.
He was abusive to the women in his life, especially his second wife and his children.
Had the girls gotten adopted like you were, their birth certificates with their mothers maiden name and any information would be lost to the girls if they wanted that info to know about their bio-mom. If it's an open adoption laws state such as NJ is now, they can easily see their birth certificate but if it is a closed adoption state, they will never be able to see that birth certificate and any adoption related paperwork unless they begged a judge to allow it.
My question to the OP, why did the step-mother feel she needed to legally adopt these girls? I would have suggested we do a ceremony at home or another location that would be more so of an emotional bonding with her having parentage to the girls. Maybe buy a special necklace for everyone or a ring. Get a certificate that can be hung on the wall, maybe notarize it so that it shows it has everyone's signature.
I don't think a compromise was out of line, especially under the circumstances with their mother dying young. She was selfish if she didn't understand your point but she could have interpreted the OP saying no to how she measures up as a wife, mother figure to your girls. I could see some people I know copping a bad attitude at how the OP felt that he should not remove their bio mother because it was important to keep them tied to her.
If the girls were young when you remarried, your wife could have had them calling her something like "mama first name" because she earned that with how she was helping to raise the girls. My MIL and her brother were raised by their step mother after their mother was forced to leave without the kid due to abuse. She never saw her kids again, none of her family knew about her two kids until we found each other at ancestry DNA. She ended up having two more boys that she raised. His mother helped raise them until gram came into the picture when MIL was about 5. MIL always called her mom. No one knew she was not their bio mother. Gram was a saint, I was very close to her. I never told her I knew she didn't birth those kids. I don't think she ever legally adopted the kids. They didn't do that back then, there was no need to.
I personally would never be comfortable asking someone to edit their spouses role by removing them from the birth certificates. I feel strongly it should not be done period. I'm close to the adoption world because my brother was taken by catholic charities for adoption after my mother changed her mind. We did find my brother in 2004 on an adoption reunion site, he was born around 1960 so he was older at that time but had the youngest kids who had just been born. My brother passed away from brain cancer. His wife remarried way too soon IMO
While there are legal ramifications to the stepmother adopting the girls, there is no reason why contact with their birth mother's family has to be severed if they are adopted.
A family member died whilst her children were young. Their father remarried and the stepmother adopted the children so they could be a cohesive family- and the stepmother had the same legal rights as their father: permission slips for school; rights of inheritance; emergency medical decision-making. It made them truly a family.
Notwithstanding the legal adoption, the children had and continue to have an ongoing relationship with their birth mother's family because their father included his former in-laws in all the family events. They are invited to graduations and the children speak often and freely with their birth mother's family. As has been mentioned elsewhere, the more love a child receives, the better for the child.
It can work if the surviving parent considers their children's best interests, not their own.
Sorry that your first wife died, but your second wife is well rid of you.
You are selfish, inconsiderate, and emotionally cold.
That is harsh, though I see your point. My Dad died in January 1973. My mother remarried in June 1974. While I was never legally adopted nor did I call him "Dad" until about a week before he died in December 2013, he was, in all non-financial respects my father. I can't insert myself into your family life, but why could not a "near-adoption" such as I had been arranged?
something else comes to mind.
if a man has a pattern of infidelity and has long term marital affairs and is apparently OK with this behavior, then they would do less damage to others if they simply did not get married again, but hired prostitutes or call girls or just slept around and lived a promiscuous lifestyle without also being married. i am saying that with all sincerity. when my kids were small we moved to a new state for my then-husband to work for a start up company in the high tech field. There were about six of his colleagues all with young children so the moms and toddlers tended to do things together such as play group for the kids, going to company picnics together, that sort of thing. One of the colleagues was divorced. On the weekends that he did not have his child staying with him, he used the services of a call girl who came to his apartment. That always seemed to me a very mature, ethical, responsible approach. He shared with one of the other guys that he did not have the time or energy for a girlfriend or for dating and was not interested at that point in his life in getting married again. I respect the way he handled that.
so until the dad can act like a married person, and yeah if you're in the USA generally that carries with it the expectation of monogamy and marital fidelity, until he can do that he would do less damage and harm to his future ex-wives and children if he just did not get married again. if a person wants to be promiscuous (man or woman) then don't get married because it creates a swath of destruction in its wake to the people around them.
I am caucasian. Two of my three adult sons married women who are not white, so they are in inter-racial marriages. The third son is still single. All are in their 30s. The women they married were very vocal in saying that they chose to NOT marry someone from their own culture. They are from two different cultures; one daughter-in-law is from South America mixed race black and Hispanic; the other daughter in law is from India. Both have dark skin. They both said they married outside their own culture because they said they wanted to try to avoid the prevalence and acceptance of infidelity in the family and culture they grew up in.
and while there are no guarantees any individual man or woman won't have an affair regardless of race or culture or geography, a person can do what they can to ensure or increase the likelihood of fidelity in marriage, including avoiding cultural norms which condone affairs. The daughter in law from South America said it is common for both her grandfathers to not only have affairs, but to have entire "other families" with the mistress, it was totally out in the open. According to her it is seen as a sign of machismo. She hated it, and that is not what she wanted in a marriage, hence she married someone not from that background. She described it as ongoing humiliation for her grandmothers and she said even as a kid she swore she would never put up with that.
NOTE: I am not making generalizations about any particular group or culture. I am relating what my family members (daughters-in-law) shared with me about their choice to enter into an inter-racial marriage and their stated reasons for doing so.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 07-16-2023 at 06:16 PM..
Pretend I'm quoting prior posts that are in defense of the adoptive mother, pro adoption. I just woke up, I'm too lazy to grab the quotes.
I started as an adoptee advocate around 1999 right after coming online. Some of you are familiar with some of my posts here in the people search section where myself and other members reunited the adoptees with their bio family.
I'll admit, it wasn't always in the best interest of everyone because the adoptee had too much negative baggage due to the adoption, being ripped away from their truth, denied their right to have a copy of their birth certificate which they are the only people denied this basic right, their names were also changed, some dying, never knowing their birth name. Most have never regained their right to that birth certificate. Some can never get a passport either due to that amended adoption birth certificate not being legal for identification purposes like an original birth certificate was. There are also too many to count who are denied access to the DAR (Daughters of the American revolution) and their genetic Mayflower ties. Some are trying to have their biological father who was identified via Ancestry DNA added to their birth certificate but they're denied that right too, even when the biological father is standing next to them to be added to the birth certificate but are denied. A DNA paternity or maternity test is not as accurate as ancestry DNA which says a parent/child relationship, not that the person is 99.9999999999% chance they are the parent, insert mother/father here.
You guys are replying in the best interests of the step mother, you're too close to what she may be going through, this is not about her, it is what are the best interests of the child or children?
Adoption is never in the best interest of the child because their name is being changed. I can bring 9 out of 10 adoptees here to give an opinion that changing their birth certificate and name are not in their best interest.
Do you not understand that a birth certificate should be about one thing, the two people, a born genetic male and female who's sperm and egg who share biological DNA with the child they created.
It is 2023, maybe we need to change birth certificates to add lines for who [b]carried and birth the child along with the person deemed the 2nd parent who is not always a male these days which is stupid because two women, while they can raise a child, they can not both contribute one egg to said child, or at least not yet. I wouldn't be shocked if it could be done in a lab.
Anyway, in 2023 there are ways to give legal rights to the step mother without her having to alter their birth certificates to add her as "mother" when she did not birth these girls. Editing her as being the mother will not make her whole after not having the ability to have her own kids. This is what this is about. Making her feel like she birth these kids when she could not have ever done that. She should go get counseling if she has baggage about not being able to have her own kids.
I say yes, give her legal rights because yes, she deserves legal rights, even to be called some sort of "mother/mom name" such as mama fist name or whatever. A birth certificate should never be altered. Children should not also have to change their names.
Think about what is best for the child. Sorry but it is not editing the birth certificate, especially not in 2023 when legal rights do not need her name on the birth certificate. Adding her name to this "birth document" will not restore her fertility, ability to have a child.
Pretend I'm quoting prior posts that are in defense of the adoptive mother, pro adoption. I just woke up, I'm too lazy to grab the quotes.
I started as an adoptee advocate around 1999 right after coming online. Some of you are familiar with some of my posts here in the people search section where myself and other members reunited the adoptees with their bio family.
I'll admit, it wasn't always in the best interest of everyone because the adoptee had too much negative baggage due to the adoption, being ripped away from their truth, denied their right to have a copy of their birth certificate which they are the only people denied this basic right, their names were also changed, some dying, never knowing their birth name. Most have never regained their right to that birth certificate. Some can never get a passport either due to that amended adoption birth certificate not being legal for identification purposes like an original birth certificate was. There are also too many to count who are denied access to the DAR (Daughters of the American revolution) and their genetic Mayflower ties. Some are trying to have their biological father who was identified via Ancestry DNA added to their birth certificate but they're denied that right too, even when the biological father is standing next to them to be added to the birth certificate but are denied. A DNA paternity or maternity test is not as accurate as ancestry DNA which says a parent/child relationship, not that the person is 99.9999999999% chance they are the parent, insert mother/father here.
You guys are replying in the best interests of the step mother, you're too close to what she may be going through, this is not about her, it is what are the best interests of the child or children?
Adoption is never in the best interest of the child because their name is being changed. I can bring 9 out of 10 adoptees here to give an opinion that changing their birth certificate and name are not in their best interest.
Do you not understand that a birth certificate should be about one thing, the two people, a born genetic male and female who's sperm and egg who share biological DNA with the child they created.
It is 2023, maybe we need to change birth certificates to add lines for who [b]carried and birth the child along with the person deemed the 2nd parent who is not always a male these days which is stupid because two women, while they can raise a child, they can not both contribute one egg to said child, or at least not yet. I wouldn't be shocked if it could be done in a lab.
Anyway, in 2023 there are ways to give legal rights to the step mother without her having to alter their birth certificates to add her as "mother" when she did not birth these girls. Editing her as being the mother will not make her whole after not having the ability to have her own kids. This is what this is about. Making her feel like she birth these kids when she could not have ever done that. She should go get counseling if she has baggage about not being able to have her own kids.
I say yes, give her legal rights because yes, she deserves legal rights, even to be called some sort of "mother/mom name" such as mama fist name or whatever. A birth certificate should never be altered. Children should not also have to change their names.
Think about what is best for the child. Sorry but it is not editing the birth certificate, especially not in 2023 when legal rights do not need her name on the birth certificate. Adding her name to this "birth document" will not restore her fertility, ability to have a child.
Thanks for reading
Thank you for your selfless work.
Really appreciate your insights.
I had no idea of the the scope of the bureaucratic as well as emotional hurdles some adoptees are facing in their everyday life.
It seems that the void is always there even for happy adoptees with loving families.
Heartbreaking.
Agree with the father’s decision not to allow the official adoption of his daughters by ex step-mother.
They had their mother who unfortunately died. It was selfish of the stepmother to even ask and then insist on adoption. Why was she so uncouth?
It was as she was trying to erase the dead mother..
Perhaps this actually led to the break down of the trust and the OP’s commitment to marriage; hence mistress.
It should be the other way around - the OP’s daughters asking her to adopt them if they felt that she was truly doing an outstanding mother’s job while honoring their dead mother.
Thank you once again for your thoughtful post - showing us the other side of some adoptions (wouldn’t let me rep)
something else comes to mind.
if a man has a pattern of infidelity and has long term marital affairs and is apparently OK with this behavior, then they would do less damage to others if they simply did not get married again, but hired prostitutes or call girls or just slept around and lived a promiscuous lifestyle without also being married. i am saying that with all sincerity. when my kids were small we moved to a new state for my then-husband to work for a start up company in the high tech field. There were about six of his colleagues all with young children so the moms and toddlers tended to do things together such as play group for the kids, going to company picnics together, that sort of thing. One of the colleagues was divorced. On the weekends that he did not have his child staying with him, he used the services of a call girl who came to his apartment. That always seemed to me a very mature, ethical, responsible approach. He shared with one of the other guys that he did not have the time or energy for a girlfriend or for dating and was not interested at that point in his life in getting married again. I respect the way he handled that.
so until the dad can act like a married person, and yeah if you're in the USA generally that carries with it the expectation of monogamy and marital fidelity, until he can do that he would do less damage and harm to his future ex-wives and children if he just did not get married again. if a person wants to be promiscuous (man or woman) then don't get married because it creates a swath of destruction in its wake to the people around them.
I am caucasian. Two of my three adult sons married women who are not white, so they are in inter-racial marriages. The third son is still single. All are in their 30s. The women they married were very vocal in saying that they chose to NOT marry someone from their own culture. They are from two different cultures; one daughter-in-law is from South America mixed race black and Hispanic; the other daughter in law is from India. Both have dark skin. They both said they married outside their own culture because they said they wanted to try to avoid the prevalence and acceptance of infidelity in the family and culture they grew up in.
and while there are no guarantees any individual man or woman won't have an affair regardless of race or culture or geography, a person can do what they can to ensure or increase the likelihood of fidelity in marriage, including avoiding cultural norms which condone affairs. The daughter in law from South America said it is common for both her grandfathers to not only have affairs, but to have entire "other families" with the mistress, it was totally out in the open. According to her it is seen as a sign of machismo. She hated it, and that is not what she wanted in a marriage, hence she married someone not from that background. She described it as ongoing humiliation for her grandmothers and she said even as a kid she swore she would never put up with that.
NOTE: I am not making generalizations about any particular group or culture. I am relating what my family members (daughters-in-law) shared with me about their choice to enter into an inter-racial marriage and their stated reasons for doing so.
FWIW,
The white civilization and culture is seemingly being erased, especially as relates to families.
The Estrangement is common, the phrase “toxic people” as applied to closest relatives is at all times high and is widely used and applied liberally by the so called”professionals” as well as parroting them public at large
The next “frontier” of annulment of white cultural norms is the promotion of polyamory. No more faithful “nest”.
This “research” provides the “talking points” for the future after we are done with gender
It is cringe worthy how they conduct the “research” obscuring or glossing over some facts and making conclusions out of thin air..
The OP’s mother is from different culture, but the OP is from ours 100%.
And we don’t know which cultural norms would prevail in the future..
Having said that it is worthwhile to note that the cheating is as common between white spouses as among others, so the OP didn’t need a lecture and being accused of serial cheating though.
He was honest and I appreciate that.
My take that he was still mentally “married” to his dead wife in his second marriage; so he wasn’t emotionally committed to a woman in spite having a marriage certificate.
Her demand for adoption didn’t help to strengthen the bonds - perhaps quite the opposite
Last edited by L00k4ward; 07-17-2023 at 04:23 AM..
FWIW,
The white civilization and culture is seemingly being erased, especially as relates to families.
The Estrangement is common, the phrase “toxic people” as applied to closest relatives is at all times high and is widely used and applied liberally by the so called”professionals” as well as parroting them public at large
The next “frontier” of annulment of white cultural norms is the promotion of polyamory. No more faithful “nest”.
This “research” provides the “talking points” for the future after we are done with gender
It is cringe worthy how they conduct the “research” obscuring or glossing over some facts and making conclusions out of thin air..
The OP’s mother is from different culture, but the OP is from ours 100%.
And we don’t know which cultural norms would prevail in the future..
Having said that it is worthwhile to note that the cheating is as common between white spouses as among others, so the OP didn’t need a lecture and being accused of serial cheating though.
He was honest and I appreciate that.
My take that he was still mentally “married” to his dead wife in his second marriage; so he wasn’t emotionally committed to a woman in spite having a marriage certificate.
Her demand for adoption didn’t help to strengthen the bonds - perhaps quite the opposite
Agree with this ^
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