Domestic v. International Adoption: a clear path begins to emerge! (foster care, orphan)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It seems that the question of whether an adoptee is well-adjusted seems often to be gauged on how much more the adoptee loves their afamily than their bfamily - so my having a lovely bfamily as well as afamily means that I am considered maladjusted.
This is what I see going on here, too... that or it is gauged by how much an adoptee loves adoption. If an adoptee expresses problems with adoption, they are usually dismissed on the assumption that they "must have had a bad experience," or they are accused of being bitter & angry, or having an axe to grind.
But the truth is that many of us had very loving, supportive upbringings.
I've read through plenty of threads on this forum.
Some people who are against International Adoption have had problems in their lives. Mainly these people were adopted Domestically. Some of their problems began when they were never told they were adopted and either were told at an older age, or they found it out on their own (it felt as if they were lied to).
All of the adopted people we know were adopted Internationally and they all knew they were adopted at an early age, so no surprises about birth parents and their heritage. Our daughter does not want to find out about her birth parents, the information she has is sufficient for her.--- We are the only parents she knows and wants to know. She has no desire to visit her country of origin either, although my wife would like to. Our daughter says she is American and this is her country.
The split between Domestic adoption and International adoption is huge. Does anyone else notice these differences? I've not seen any problems posted by International adoptees, unless I'm missing something?
Yes, you do seem to be missing something: experience with people who do not share your views. You missed some posts by an international adoptee last week who was very angry and "poorly adjusted" about his experience. Some adoptees feel robbed of their heritage and culture, even their names.
Domestic adoptees and international adoptees seem to have traveled two very different paths. That is apparent to me.
Every person has traveled a very different path. If you think that international adoptees are happier about adoption than domestic adoptees in a general sense, than that suggests you should broaden your sources of information. The more you broaden those sources, the more apparent it will become to you that both domestic adoptees & international adoptees have expressed problems with adoption.
Adoption- A Handy Hook Upon Which to Hang Our Problems
I would never discount anyone's feelings. How can we tell somebody their feelings are "right" or "wrong". They are what they are. What I have problems with is :
1) those strident and anti-adoption zealots who would close down ALL adoptions, who rant and rave about how evil adoptive parents are and how our children are not really our children and we are not really families, how we have stolen our children and damaged them beyond repair, how kids everywhere would be better off in deplorable orphanages or even as street children but, hey--at least they would be in their culture and country of birth.
2)people- who blame every problem in their lives on the fact that they are adopted. Did you ever think you might have adjustment and social problems even if you stayed with your birth family? You do realize people who were raised with b families have problems, insecurities and angst similar to those of adoptees. Even relatives will tsk tsk when an adopted teen has problems. "whisper--it must be because he is adopted- poor thing".
My adopted Korean daughter had little patience with her friends who were also adopted b/c they blamed everything a bit askew in their lives on the fact that they were adopted. "Susie flunked a test today. Must be because she is adopted" she would say sarcastically.
I think there are adopted people who long for information and roots and I understand that. My daughter and apparently Sheena's daughter and thousands of other adoptees do not have that longing or adoption angst. yet we are told over and over again on this forum that they really do and just aren't expressing it to us. BS I say!!!!
I am so glad that opinions and judgments about unwed mothers have changed over the decades. Still I think many kids raised by teenagers would have fared better being raised by adoptive parents and the teens would have had more opportunities to reach their own potential. And remember, in every country of this world kids are placed for adoption by mature women and couples for a myriad of reasons. They don't all come from unwed teenager mothers. Especially in Asia many are relinquished because of poverty, too many children, maternal health problems, deceased husbands and every reason in the world.
Personally I have painted the b mothers of my 3 adopted kids in a good light even though we know nothing. I would like to think it was an act of selfless love and at the same time self preservation. i teach my kids to not make judgments and not to jump to conclusions and to respect everybody until they prove to you they are not worthy of respect.
Adoption- A Handy Hook Upon Which to Hang Our Problems
I would never discount anyone's feelings. How can we tell somebody their feelings are "right" or "wrong". They are what they are. What I have problems with is :
1) those strident and anti-adoption zealots who would close down ALL adoptions, who rant and rave about how evil adoptive parents are and how our children are not really our children and we are not really families, how we have stolen our children and damaged them beyond repair, how kids everywhere would be better off in deplorable orphanages or even as street children but, hey--at least they would be in their culture and country of birth.
I have not seen one person on this forum say adoptive parents are evil, or that your children are not really your own. Not saying there aren't people out there who express those feelings, but we are discussing the adoptees on this forum, right?
Also as it has been repeated over & over, being anti-adoption does not mean kids should be left in deplorable orphanages or on the streets as adoption is not a solution to children being left in deplorable orphanages or on the streets. To find a solution you have to look at the problems that lead to such things happening.
So correct me if I'm wrong, but no one here has said the things you have stated.
Quote:
2)people- who blame every problem in their lives on the fact that they are adopted.
Most people don't blame EVERY problem in their lives on adoption, you are taking a person who is admitting to SOME problems caused by adoption & interpreting that as, "This person blames everything on adoption."
Quote:
Did you ever think you might have adjustment and social problems even if you stayed with your birth family? You do realize people who were raised with b families have problems, insecurities and angst similar to those of adoptees.
Of course we have. We are not stupid, you know.
Quote:
Even relatives will tsk tsk when an adopted teen has problems. "whisper--it must be because he is adopted- poor thing".
Yes, we hear those whispers, too.
Quote:
I think there are adopted people who long for information and roots and I understand that. My daughter and apparently Sheena's daughter and thousands of other adoptees do not have that longing or adoption angst. yet we are told over and over again on this forum that they really do and just aren't expressing it to us. BS I say!!!!
How do you know thousands of adoptees do not long for those things? Have you considered that thousands do? What basis do you have to declare that BS? You haven't exactly been open to reaching out to the part of the community who expresses problems with adoption industry.
[quote=thethreefoldme;26113359]I have not seen one person on this forum say adoptive parents are evil, or that your children are not really your own. Not saying there aren't people out there who express those feelings, but we are discussing the adoptees on this forum, right?
Remember Daniel?
Also as it has been repeated over & over, being anti-adoption does not mean kids should be left in deplorable orphanages or on the streets as adoption is not a solution to children being left in deplorable orphanages or on the streets. To find a solution you have to look at the problems that lead to such things happening.
So correct me if I'm wrong, but no one here has said the things you have stated.
]Again look at Daniel's posts- oh I forgot most were deleted because they were so inflamatory. Maybe that is why some of us are so defensive. If you didn't see them you would not know.
Most people don't blame EVERY problem in their lives on adoption, you are taking a person who is admitting to SOME problems caused by adoption & interpreting that as, "This person blames everything on adoption."
Of course we have. We are not stupid, you know.
Of course you are not stupid, you express yourself very well.
Yes, we hear those whispers, too.
How do you know thousands of adoptees do not long for those things? Have you considered that thousands do? What basis do you have to declare that BS?
I know many adoptees who do not feel this way and I'm sure there are WAY more than the ones I know about. You realize most people are not comfortable shouting from the rooftops about their personal feelings? You haven't exactly been open to reaching out to the part of the community who expresses problems with adoption industry.
Nothing could be FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. i WAS INADVERTENTLY INVOLVED WITH A VERY FRAUDULENT AGENCY AND FACILITATOR. I screamed from the rooftops here and in other forums about these evil people and offered testimony to shut them down. I have posted and written till my fingers are numb about the need for adoption reform. I lived the nighnare of unethical adoption industry. Still I believe in adoption but advocate for it being done the right way.
How could I forget one of my favorite people, Nimchimsky!
So there's one on CD. Nim was adopted from Russia.
Tsk tsk! How could you forget! Lol kidding.
But yeah, I really don't feel the need to completely search out my biological mother or father. Then again my feelings make sense with more information about the circumstances surrounding my birth, which I won't go into, but suffice it to say that an adoptee's feelings about their birth parents is a very personal decision and often come with good reasons. People who do not know the whole story should reserve judgment.
I have not seen one person on this forum say adoptive parents are evil, or that your children are not really your own. Not saying there aren't people out there who express those feelings, but we are discussing the adoptees on this forum, right?
Remember Daniel?
Also as it has been repeated over & over, being anti-adoption does not mean kids should be left in deplorable orphanages or on the streets as adoption is not a solution to children being left in deplorable orphanages or on the streets. To find a solution you have to look at the problems that lead to such things happening.
So correct me if I'm wrong, but no one here has said the things you have stated.
]Again look at Daniel's posts- oh I forgot most were deleted because they were so inflamatory. Maybe that is why some of us are so defensive. If you didn't see them you would not know.
Most people don't blame EVERY problem in their lives on adoption, you are taking a person who is admitting to SOME problems caused by adoption & interpreting that as, "This person blames everything on adoption."
Of course we have. We are not stupid, you know.
Of course you are not stupid, you express yourself very well.
Yes, we hear those whispers, too.
How do you know thousands of adoptees do not long for those things? Have you considered that thousands do? What basis do you have to declare that BS?
I know many adoptees who do not feel this way and I'm sure there are WAY more than the ones I know about. You realize most people are not comfortable shouting from the rooftops about their personal feelings? You haven't exactly been open to reaching out to the part of the community who expresses problems with adoption industry.
Nothing could be FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. i WAS INADVERTENTLY INVOLVED WITH A VERY FRAUDULENT AGENCY AND FACILITATOR. I screamed from the rooftops here and in other forums about these evil people and offered testimony to shut them down. I have posted and written till my fingers are numb about the need for adoption reform. I lived the nighnare of unethical adoption industry. Still I believe in adoption but advocate for it being done the right way.
So judge us all on our own merits - if you don't like one commenter's views, then comment on that person accordingly (btw I remember Daniel's posts and think he said he was an international adoptee). Was it necessary to start this thread which seems to have been started purely to make a dig at all the domestic adoptees on this forum?
I can only speak for myself but I've never said any of those things you mention.
Quote:
1) those strident and anti-adoption zealots who would close down ALL adoptions, who rant and rave about how evil adoptive parents are and how our children are not really our children and we are not really families, how we have stolen our children and damaged them beyond repair, how kids everywhere would be better off in deplorable orphanages or even as street children but, hey--at least they would be in their culture and country of birth.
2)people- who blame every problem in their lives on the fact that they are adopted. Did you ever think you might have adjustment and social problems even if you stayed with your birth family? You do realize people who were raised with b families have problems, insecurities and angst similar to those of adoptees. Even relatives will tsk tsk when an adopted teen has problems. "whisper--it must be because he is adopted- poor thing".
My first post was pretty blunt, I admit, because I was personally shocked by the nature of the post to which I was replying, but I've never been anything but respectful towards Sheena or anyone else since.
The funny thing is that all of us, adoptees and APs, do agree on the one thing - that each adoptee is entitled to their own feelings about their own situation etc - yet somehow we can't see that we are agreeing on that point.
Last edited by susankate; 09-16-2012 at 09:37 AM..
But yeah, I really don't feel the need to completely search out my biological mother or father. Then again my feelings make sense with more information about the circumstances surrounding my birth, which I won't go into, but suffice it to say that an adoptee's feelings about their birth parents is a very personal decision and often come with good reasons. People who do not know the whole story should reserve judgment.
I remember Daniel & although he was very abrasive, he did not say all adoptive parents were evil. I remember him talking about the very loving, supportive relationship he had with his parents.
Quote:
Again look at Daniel's posts- oh I forgot most were deleted because they were so inflamatory. Maybe that is why some of us are so defensive. If you didn't see them you would not know.
I understand that those posts made some people feel defensive, but he is gone now & that does not excuse posts attacking an entire group of adoptees who never even said the things you are claiming.
Quote:
I know many adoptees who do not feel this way and I'm sure there are WAY more than the ones I know about. You realize most people are not comfortable shouting from the rooftops about their personal feelings?
You know many adoptees who do not feel that way & you're right there are way more than the ones you know about. But I know many adoptees who DO feel that way & there are WAY more than the ones I know. All of their opinions should be valued the same, all of their experiences can useful in preparation in raising an adopted child.
Quote:
Nothing could be FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. i WAS INADVERTENTLY INVOLVED WITH A VERY FRAUDULENT AGENCY AND FACILITATOR. I screamed from the rooftops here and in other forums about these evil people and offered testimony to shut them down. I have posted and written till my fingers are numb about the need for adoption reform. I lived the nighnare of unethical adoption industry. Still I believe in adoption
Quote:
but advocate for it being done the right way.
I'm sorry for your experience & I'm glad you have been advocating for reform. I'm not sure I understand how you can support adoption so long as it remains unethical, though? If people continue to pay into a broken system without demanding changes, the system will remain broken. So long as there is a profitable business that relies on taking advantage of vulnerable people, the focus will never shift to helping those people & prospective adoptive parents can never be sure there isn't corruption.
If or when adoption finally becomes ethical in practice, I will wholeheartedly support it. Until then I will support reform, open records, family preservation, & guardianship instead. Can you build a family without adoption? Absolutely. Can you help children in need without adoption? Yes.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
