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What teenager isn't pissed at their parents for nagging? it goes with being a teenager. And there are plenty of teenagers in this country who would have very romantic thoughts about "going back to my original(or different) family". An immature mind can play lots of tricks.
This is my take. 1) the kid has had a rough life and both he and his a parents were neither probably prepared for the tremendous challenges in an international adoption at this age. 2) The government found out about his story and jumped on it to publicize their ban on American adoptions. 3) This plays right into their hands. 4) How do we know this kid even said the things quoted from him? 5) How do we not know he was paid or somehow compensated for his story? 6) I have no doubts the Putin government would manipulate this kid for their own purposes in a New York minute.
Do we know for sure he was not abused in either( or both) homes? It is a fact that most alcoholic parents lash out at their family much more frequently than sober parents. It could very well be his adoptive parents gave him the first structure and rules in his life and it was too much for him.
I doubt we will get the full story but I too feel this kid will wake up some day with a great deal of regret for blowing his one chance to escape the crushing poverty and alcoholism which seems to be in his family.
You make some good points, NK. We don't know if he was abused. We also don't know if the quotes are accurate &/or if he was compensated for the story. However, I think it is pretty safe to say most teens would not choose to live on the streets simply because their parents offered them structure, rules, & love. When that happens there are almost always unhealthy family dynamics at play.
& I really doubt he'd be saying such things about a family he felt truly loved, well-cared for, & supported by. I suppose it's possible that he is a pathological liar or was paid to say those things -- but why assume so much just to see the APs in a positive light? APs are not perfect people. They make mistakes, they bite off more than they can chew, & yes sometimes they do mistreat the children they adopt. I don't know what happened, but it is certainly possible the boy is telling the truth.
Don't be too swift to judge the parents, judge the teen as a liar instead?
CC: I am not judging anyone, unlike some here - the whole story is not available to us.
Sometimes adoptees are treated very differently from their a-siblings. They also didn't come to the family with such a troubled past or have to assimilate to a new family, culture, & country. Most likely the a-parents were ill-equipped to raise a child like that -- if that is the case, should the boy be blamed for that?
CC: Again, none of us know any of this to be true in this particular situation, so none of us can or should blame anyone, in the absence of confirming information.
If this young man chose to live that way there were clearly major problems at home. Teens don't run away, live on the streets, & resort to drugs & alcohol for the fun of it. In the second article I believe it said his a-dad gave him the money to go to Russia. The boy says they did not invite him back home, the APs said they did but he wanted to go back to Russia instead.
Someone is definitely lying there. Could be the boy, could be the APs.
CC: Or it might be simply a matter of misunderstanding and miscommunication. There are many reasons teens can fall victim to drug and alcohol abuse. We don't know the reasons or the circumstances in the case. Major problems are likely a part of them - but the source and cause of those problems is unclear.
Expecting a therapist to get him to stop acting up is not exactly getting him the help he needed. Considering everything he has been through, if they waited until then to get him therapy I would say that was somewhat neglectful of them. Were they really expecting that raising these boys would be like raising a "typical American teen"?
CC: We do not know that the parents did not get therapy or other forms of help for this boy previously. Nor do we know that they "expect(ed) a therapist to get him to stop acting up".
So you are standing in judgement -- judgement of the boy vs. his parents who were ultimately responsible for getting him the help he needed to live a productive, happy life.
CC: There is an "if" in your paragraph above - obviously you are aware that you do not have the entire story any more than any of the rest of us do, so why are you yourself judging the parents based on your own not fully informed assumptions?
CC: I am not "standing in judgement" of either the boy or his parents - the verdict is not in, heck, the witness statements are just beginning! - but I do think it's highly likely he'll have regrets in the years to come when he's no longer "Putin's poster-boy" (and you can bet your life he's getting lots of support from the Putinists right now). That's not judging him, that's realistically predicting a likely outcome, based on what we know about not only this boy and his adoptive family, but about current politics in Russia.
I expect his parents also have plenty of regrets and wish they'd known better ways to handle whatever contributed to this situation as well. But I am not going to judge either child or parent, and your accusations of my doing just that are unfounded, unnecessary, and more than a little misplaced.
I am sure mistakes were made by everyone at one time or another - they're all human, after all, and perfection of either child or parent just doesn't exist on this earth.
But I bet everyone involved wishes things were different.
I'm giving my opinion based on what they were quoted saying & the fact that it is fairly obvious the APs do not have a healthy relationship with the boy. & whose responsibility was it to make sure they did?
It is possible to parent kids who have incredibly traumatic pasts without them ending up on the streets, on drugs, or having zero respect for the people who helped raise them. I'm not saying it is easy, but the parents should not be absolved of all responsibility & the boy blamed for this outcome simply because he turned 18.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your post, but it did come across like you assume the boy is lying. You listed how the APs could be excused of any wrongdoing here & only mentioned the boy will have regrets at first. Considering the APs have stooped to the same level as the boy by publicly trashing him in return, I felt that was being just as judgmental.
Like I said I suppose it is possible the boy is a pathological liar, was paid to lie, or the quotes are completely fabricated. But then most people who have read these articles are more willing to have sympathy for the APs than for the boy -- based on what? Not sure if you've read any of the comments from them, CC, but the majority of judgement appears to have been thrust upon the boy so far.
What did he gain from not having a good relationship with his APs? More loss & more hardship.
I agree that it is unfortunate the story has been politicized. Is there any evidence he intended for that to happen or that he is being "supported by Putinists?" Not even sure what you mean by that or how you could be so certain.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 04-01-2013 at 06:37 AM..
I'm giving my opinion based on what they were quoted saying & the fact that it is fairly obvious the APs do not have a healthy relationship with the boy. & whose responsibility was it to make sure they did?
CC: Do you really think that parents, be they biological or adoptive, bear absolute full and sole responsibility for their children's issues and ability to connect with others in a healthy manner, regardless of how much time, effort, love, therapy, counseling, education, effort and financial expense they expend to attempt to help their children and create healthy relationships with them? How many parents of troubled children do you know well? Do you not think that at some point during adolescence, the child should begin to take personal responsibility and make some contributions in this area himself?
As a child matures, it is natural and appropriate for them to not only begin to make their own choices but also to assume more responsibility for their own choices. It is the parents' responsibility to guide that child, to provide them with the stability and examples that lead to the growth of good judgement in the child. This boy lacked such parental guidance and stability during the first 13 years of his life, which very likely contributed to his issues after his adoption, as you yourself note. Helping such a child is very, very difficult and again as you note, does require a different approach from rearing a typical child who has beenpart of a stable family since infancy.
It is possible to parent kids who have incredibly traumatic pasts without them ending up on the streets, on drugs, or having zero respect for the people who helped raise them. I'm not saying it is easy, but the parents should not be absolved of all responsibility & the boy blamed for this outcome simply because he turned18.
CC: Agreed. Nor did I blame this young man for all of his issues. Once again, we just don't know enough of the particulars of this case to cast stones in any direction.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your post, but it did come across like you assume the boy is lying. You listed how the APs could be excused of any wrongdoing here & only mentioned the boy will have regrets at first. Considering the APs have stooped to the same level as the boy by publicly trashing him in return, I felt that was being just as judgmental.
CC: "...trashing him in return"? The adoptive parents gave their viewpoint and some background about their experiences with their son and what they did to attempt to address his problems. How is this "trashing" the boy? How is it "stooping to the same level" to defend onself from uninformed and apparently false accusations of child abuse? The parents only responded to their son's accusations; they did not accuse him of anything or publicize his return to Russia or his difficulties, but only responded to his claims.
Like I said I suppose it is possible the boy is a pathological liar, was paid to lie, or the quotes are completely fabricated. But then most people who have read these articles are more willing to have sympathy for the APs than for the boy -- based on what? Not sure if you've read any of the comments from them, CC, but the majority of judgement appears to have been thrust upon the boy so far.
CC: It is pretty harsh to term this boy "a pathological liar". I expect things look very different from his POV than they do to most others, however. Are you familiar with reactive attachment disorder? I do not know if this boy was every diagnosed with RAD, but many aspects of his story make me wonder if that might not be the case. Given what we know about his background, he would certainly be at very high risk for RAD.
What did he gain from not having a good relationship with his APs? More loss & more hardship.
CC: On this point, we fully agree. It's extremely sad for all involved.
I agree that it is unfortunate the story has been politicized. Is there any evidence he intended for that to happen or that he is being "supported by Putinists?" Not even sure what you mean by that or how you could be so certain.
CC: Of course I am not "so certain", but given the current Russian governmental politicization of and disdain for American adoption of Russian children, it is a very good bet that this boy will receive a LOT of attention and support from the Russian governmental authorities. Since many Russian press reports are not reliable or objective, it is unlikely that those following this story will ever learn the full truth, but the story is receiving very wide play in both the Russian and international press.
As for intention, the boy is eighteen. I expect his focus was very much on himself, and that the politicizing was coincidental, given the timing of his return to Russia, rather than something he deliberately intended. However, I expect he is making full use of whatever sympathy and support he is receiving, which is understandable.
"...trashing him in return"? The adoptive parents gave their viewpoint and some background about their experiences with their son and what they did to attempt to address his problems. How is this "trashing" the boy? How is it "stooping to the same level" to defend onself from uninformed and apparently false accusations of child abuse? The parents only responded to their son's accusations; they did not accuse him of anything or publicize his return to Russia or his difficulties, but only responded to his claims.
This is assuming the boy is making false accusations & that everything the APs have said is true, which you also have no evidence to support.
The boy may have merely been giving his viewpoint & background about his experience as you put it. For some reason that is being automatically viewed as trashing them with lies, whereas the APs taking zero responsibility for anything & blaming the trip to Russia while telling the world he had problems with drugs & alcohol is not.
It's extremely unlikely there were no problems prior to the trip to Russia like they claim. IMO that sounds like denial, or throwing the boy under the bus in order to save face. BTW, compliance does not mean there are no problems. It sounds like they believe it does. Perhaps that was part of the problem.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 04-01-2013 at 12:09 PM..
This discussion brings up some very good issues to consider. If we as parents-bio or adoptive- blush and bow and say thank you when we are complemented on the achievements of our children should we also acknowledge any contribution we may have made to troubled and undisciplined kids? In other words, if our kids turn out exceedingly well are we responsible and if they don't are we?
At some point the personality and genetic makeup of the kid has to come into play when measuring achievements or lack thereof. Determination, strength, attitude, intelligence, compassion and characteristics like these can only be modeled and taught so far.It only makes sense that a child "damaged" by early childhood trauma and instability will have more problems than a kid raised in a loving stable home from day one. Now plenty of kids like the latter do turn out "bad" but how can we hold the parents responsible? And how can anybody hold adoptive parents of a boy who went through so much hardship on the other side of the world responsible for his drug use and truancy?
We all agree it is a sad story and we will probably never know the real story but I think the parents are going through a lot of soul searching and probably regret bringing this kid here in the first place. Some folks think they are super parents and can overcome all obstacles in their way. In other words, bad things happen to other people. Soon we realize we are all eventually other people.
My heart goes out to this young man. He has endured some extreme losses in only 18 years of life. The comments about him on some of these news sites are absolutely horrific. I see a heavy bias in the articles I have read in favor of the APs, so of course it's going to be next to impossible for us to know the full story (there always being two sides to any story).
A red flag for me was the name change. I find it curious that they would not just change the last name, but also the first name of a 13 year old. I wonder if these APs really knew what they were in for; adopting teens from another country, possibly with emotional problems, isn't a "save the world one person at a time" project, but a momentous undertaking. Being moved from Russia to the white, middle classes suburbs (I used to live in a town about two miles from Collegeville, so I'm familiar) of Philly is an incredibly stark contrast. What support was in place for these teens? They should have been in almost immediate therapy, which I would have anticipated would last for years, but I see there is specific mention that this happened after the drug use started.
Anyway, the name change and the very specific mention of giving the kids an American life- this to me indicates that instead of embracing these teens as innately Russian (they were older, not little children) and instead focusing on creating a safe environment that closely resembled things they would be comfortable with, these parents tried to raise these teens like they did their other children. Which is sweet, but very ignorant. They didn't need American names and fishing trips; they needed unconditional love and very Russian and familiar touchstones in their new life. They were already in different living conditions, with strangers, weird food, an unfamiliar language, different beds, different customs, possibly even different religious beliefs, even. Everything was unfamiliar, and I don't see evidence that the APs tried to curb this difference instead of enhance it.
Now, they very well might have. I'm making rampant assumptions here. But so are the people saying terrible things about the teen. I don't know if these APs were terrible, but they might have been. I see no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt when a young boy in their charge ended up on the streets using drugs. That's a pretty dramatic end to their obviously failed attempts to give him a better life.
I grew up with friends in the foster system, and this sounds eerily like some of their stories. Possibly well-intentioned adults who just don't get it, and really should never have been allowed to adopt children with such very high needs in the first place.
As for the teen, I'm sure in anger and hurt, he is lashing out. I don't really see this as anything unusual given the losses he has experienced, and I really can't find it in myself to blame him. I am not harshly judging the APs, either, but they are the parents after all. If my children ended up like this, you can sure bet I would place a heavy load of blame on myself. I think they just didn't know what they were doing and it doesn't sound like they sought out help soon enough to prevent tragedy. Sometimes, love in itself isn't enough. You have to love enough to work hard at figuring out the best way for you to show your love, and I don't see that they did this.
And how can anybody hold adoptive parents of a boy who went through so much hardship on the other side of the world responsible for his drug use and truancy?
It wasn't this kid's destiny to end up doing drugs/drinking, or on the streets. He needed help to avoid that outcome & yes he probably needed a lot more help than most parents are equipped to provide. But if they did not know how to parent a child with such issues, it was their responsibility to figure it out.
& just to be clear I'm not saying the son is not also responsible, but if the parents were not a part of the solution then surely they were a part of the problem.
If a 14 yo becomes addicted to drugs, would you hold their parents responsible? Because although this boy had turned 18, his maturity most likely was stunted in childhood/adolescence. I would expect someone who adopted a boy like him to understand he may need parenting/help avoiding drug dependency well into adulthood.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 04-01-2013 at 01:03 PM..
It only makes sense that a child "damaged" by early childhood trauma and instability will have more problems than a kid raised in a loving stable home from day one. Now plenty of kids like the latter do turn out "bad" but how can we hold the parents responsible?
Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment, but how can we NOT hold the parents responsible? Plus I don't see kids turning out "bad", they may have bad behavior. Are you saying that no matter what parents do, children's actions are pre-determined by genetics?
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