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You missed my first pick out which would be a termination...however if it is the choice between the two, I believe the teenager should be given all the help she needs to keep her baby.
It's actually not about the teenager, or the morality, or the cost to society, or the potential adoptive parents.
It's about the baby.
Babies are almost always better off with their own parents. Adoption is NOT ideal.
Don't believe me? Check out the crime/suicide/drug abuse stats for adoptees - it isn't pretty.
Nope don't agree that "children are always better off with their own parents". That sounds anti-adoption to me.
Where do you get these statistics? A baby is better with adults who have planned to have children and have the resources to raise them. They don't need to be their "own" (bio) parents - or any kind of relative whatsoever. They need to be loving, competent and mature.
Nope don't agree that "children are always better off with their own parents". That sounds anti-adoption to me.
Where do you get these statistics?
They didn't say children are always better off with their own parents. I'm not sure what they meant by almost always, but here is a study that found children are at a higher risk for maltreatment death when residing with unrelated adults (which included adoptive parents as a risk factor): Household Composition and Risk of Fatal Child Maltreatment
Also adoptees are over-represented for mental health counseling, even when adopted as infants. Here is some information about adoptees being significantly more likely to attempt suicide in adolesence than their peers:
Regardless I definitely agree that children are better off with parents who want them (adopted or not), who are loving & competent. However, that doesn't mean all children of teen parents would be better off adopted.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 05-20-2013 at 05:34 PM..
Yes, it's definitely unfair that having a baby affects men and women so differently. But because of biology there really is no way around that. We can work towards greater equality between the genders but there will always be differences.
Speaking of feminism - sending in social workers and cops into hospitals to take babies from their kicking and screaming less-than-21-year-old mothers is not something that would be supported by the feminist community. In fact, I can imagine very few people supporting such barbarism.
Lizita, you continue to portray this as some dramatic event. No one would snatch anyone from anyone's arms. It seems bios have that covered - suddenly showing up in hospitals.
Medical professionals would report it to CPS, as an underage pregnancy. It would be investigated. The parents of the pregnant child should be cited with neglect.
Then a plan should be made. Either to terminate the pregnancy or to have the child adopted out of that family.
If the boy is under 18 and he is known, the same intervention should take place with him and his family. If he is over 18, then he is guilty of rape.
I think that the girl should be offered counseling and birth control.
Just knowing that there is an outcome that doesn't reward getting knocked up, and there are consequences, will make the parents of teens more responsible.
No one seems for teen marriage. I'm not either. But a bunch of you seem OK with pregnancy.
We never let our HS students "run the streets" while in HS. They were not permitted out on school nights or permitted to stay at anyone's home for more than one night.
Our son is home from college and 19. Still has a curfew, still has to help around the house, still has to be part of the family.
Is this hard work? Yes it is. Especially when so many teens are able to do what ever they want. But we do it.
Lizita, you continue to portray this as some dramatic event. No one would snatch anyone from anyone's arms. It seems bios have that covered - suddenly showing up in hospitals.
Medical professionals would report it to CPS, as an underage pregnancy. It would be investigated. The parents of the pregnant child should be cited with neglect.
Then a plan should be made. Either to terminate the pregnancy or to have the child adopted out of that family.
If the boy is under 18 and he is known, the same intervention should take place with him and his family. If he is over 18, then he is guilty of rape.
I think that the girl should be offered counseling and birth control.
Just knowing that there is an outcome that doesn't reward getting knocked up, and there are consequences, will make the parents of teens more responsible.
No one seems for teen marriage. I'm not either. But a bunch of you seem OK with pregnancy.
We never let our HS students "run the streets" while in HS. They were not permitted out on school nights or permitted to stay at anyone's home for more than one night.
Our son is home from college and 19. Still has a curfew, still has to help around the house, still has to be part of the family.
Is this hard work? Yes it is. Especially when so many teens are able to do what ever they want. But we do it.
I certainly hope I never see the day that you and Shenna want to see happen because that would ensure that expectant mothers do not seek prenatal care, or medical care for a delivery.
There is no way I would ever consider encouraging my 16+ year old pregnant daughter to have an abortion OR give up her child. I would however, support her decision, regardless of her choice...Do I encourage teenage pregnancy? Of course not. I sincerely hope that the morning after pill becomes readily available to females of all ages. I'd prefer they prevent a pregnancy rather than figure out their best option after they become pregnant.
I cut a lot of your post to keep this post short. The teenagers you've described in your post more than likely had a lot of support from family. These are exceptions to the rule. The OP is speaking in general terms, not exceptions to the rule.
I still say that when we use exceptions to rationalize a thought/opinion, then we are in deed, supporting that action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita
Speaking of feminism - sending in social workers and cops into hospitals to take babies from their kicking and screaming less-than-21-year-old mothers is not something that would be supported by the feminist community. In fact, I can imagine very few people supporting such barbarism.
A bit dramatic don't you think Lizita? I'm in the feminist community and I totally support removing babies from teenage girls incapable of raising them. If their families want to "support" and "help" then they can attend classes alongside their teens while the babies are in cradle care. Most abuse, including neglect which has been proven to lead to RAD, and other harm is done in the first year of an infant's life, at the hands of their inexperienced and often teenaged or very young (20-21) mothers and/or their boyfriends.
It isn't barbarism. It's actual a form of socialism; taking measures to ensure the well-being of all in society, especially those who are too young and fragile to defend themselves. I'm talking about the extensive data from social welfare agencies across the nation which supports the fact that teenage motherhood often does not end well for the mother or her child, especially when you combine it with poverty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme
Also I'd like to add that if my teenaged son was sexually active with a girl who became pregnant, he would be expected to confirm paternity & take responsibility should the mother want to keep the child. I would view it as my responsibility as his parent to teach him how, which does not mean enabling him or acting as the baby's parent in their place.
Question: If you have to teach your son responsibility by making him claim paternity, doesn't this signal he is too irresponsible to even become a father (in the true sense of the word; not just by having unprotected sex) in the first place? How can he take responsibility for parenthood when he can barely get a job to support himself? He doesn't even have a H.S. diploma, can't by liquor, or maybe even cigarettes, if he's under 18? That's a lot to place in the hands of a teen, don't you think? As a "parent" of these teens, you would have to step-up and offer aid to avoid the inevitable. In my mind, this is condoning such behavior (teenage parenthood).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita
What you fail to consider is that when there is a baby in the picture teaching the teen mother a lesson is secondary. The welfare and future of the baby has to come first and not providing support to teen moms will hurt the child much more than it will serve as a consequence for the mother. Not providing needed support to teen parents would likely not lead to more teen moms placing their babies for adoption. What it would lead to is deeper poverty, less adequate parenting and a very dismal future. The baby will pay the highest price.
So unless Sheena's idea becomes reality, which will never happen, forcing teen parents to go at it on their own won't benefit anyone, especially not the child.
Re; bolded. Absolutely. Which, ideally, is why teenagers who express the desire to actually parent their babies should be required to leave high school (make it mandatory to finish their diploma at a continuation school), take mandatory parenting classes (before the birth of their child), and be placed on birth control until after age 20; in order to receive any social benefits. How else will society be assured that they don't see this behavior as acceptable and as a ticket out of their life at home? This would be my definition of support.
But, since we can't make people do anything they don't want, we instead suffer the consequences of teenage parenting as a whole. I don't know how many other studies need to be shown to reinforce this fact.
Contrary to your belief that the lesson to the teenager becomes secondary once she/he decides to parent, it actually should be paramount to allowing her/him to parent. It is primary and necessary to ensure that the parents understand that what they have taken for granted actually has long-term affects on their lives and that of their child's. When lessons aren't learned, people are bound to repeat their mistakes.
Becoming pregnant as a teen (outside of rape) is a mistake. It should be treated as such. It is not an accomplishment or "not a big deal." It is this attitude that has given us a high 34% birthrate among teens; a higher % of multiple partners in teen years; lower use of contraception for teens; and higher STD rates among teens. In short, it's an embarrassing social problem.
Because it's been discussed that somehow all teens need is support, and that with support we'd see lower rates of teens becoming pregnant and living in poverty, I thought about our current social programs which "support" teens and their babies:
WIC
Free or Reduced Daycare
Medicaid (free medical care)
Reduced Housing Costs
Tuition Assistance
Select Trade Training Courses (reduced or free)
Some daycare's are on H.S. campuses
Welfare
Food Stamps
Free Dental care for children
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
These programs are not new. Yet, none of these programs have changed the data that rejects the notion that social programs help teens become good parents and that their babies fare better when given such support. Given the availability of these programs, one would think the data would prove otherwise. One would think that we would see lower incidents of poverty among teenage mothers, higher college graduation rates, and single-digit percentages among teenage pregnancy birthrates. However, we don't. We see just the opposite.
Knowing that these programs exist, and that they've done nothing to curb the popularity in becoming a teenage parent, I remain in support of an adoption plan to teen parenting (assuming abortion is not an option).
Question: If you have to teach your son responsibility by making him claim paternity, doesn't this signal he is too irresponsible to even become a father (in the true sense of the word; not just by having unprotected sex) in the first place? How can he take responsibility for parenthood when he can barely get a job to support himself? He doesn't even have a H.S. diploma, can't by liquor, or maybe even cigarettes, if he's under 18? That's a lot to place in the hands of a teen, don't you think? As a "parent" of these teens, you would have to step-up and offer aid to avoid the inevitable. In my mind, this is condoning such behavior (teenage parenthood).
Not all unplanned pregnancies are the result of unprotected sex. Should a baby & their parents be punished because the birth control they used failed? I don't think so. If it were me I would choose to terminate the pregnancy.
It is a lot for a teen & it would not be easy, but if they were determined to raise their child their age alone does not make it impossible to become a productive member of society or a good parent. The things you listed are not permanent problems. Every new parent, no matter what age, has to learn as they go. Even adoptive parents can be bad parents or have major set-backs in life. I'm not saying these are the circumstances I would want for my first grandchild, but neither is adoption. I would never take the risks inherent in placing a child for adoption so long as my family was willing & able to raise them well.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 05-20-2013 at 06:10 PM..
Because it's been discussed that somehow all teens need is support, and that with support we'd see lower rates of teens becoming pregnant and living in poverty, I thought about our current social programs which "support" teens and their babies:
WIC
Free or Reduced Daycare
Medicaid (free medical care)
Reduced Housing Costs
Tuition Assistance
Select Trade Training Courses (reduced or free)
Some daycare's are on H.S. campuses
Welfare
Food Stamps
Free Dental care for children
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
These programs are not new. Yet, none of these programs have changed the data that rejects the notion that social programs help teens become good parents and that their babies fare better when given such support. Given the availability of these programs, one would think the data would prove otherwise. One would think that we would see lower incidents of poverty among teenage mothers, higher college graduation rates, and single-digit percentages among teenage pregnancy birthrates. However, we don't. We see just the opposite.
Knowing that these programs exist, and that they've done nothing to curb the popularity in becoming a teenage parent, I remain in support of an adoption plan to teen parenting (assuming abortion is not an option).
They have done nothing to curb the epidemic of teen pregnancy.
In fact, as they exist currently, they may have encouraged it by aiding teen aged individuals to set up households when they have babies.
These programs are not new. Yet, none of these programs have changed the data that rejects the notion that social programs help teens become good parents and that their babies fare better when given such support. Given the availability of these programs, one would think the data would prove otherwise. One would think that we would see lower incidents of poverty among teenage mothers, higher college graduation rates, and single-digit percentages among teenage pregnancy birthrates. However, we don't. We see just the opposite.
Knowing that these programs exist, and that they've done nothing to curb the popularity in becoming a teenage parent, I remain in support of an adoption plan to teen parenting (assuming abortion is not an option).
First there are other factors you are not considering. Also, there's a big difference between availability of programs & access to effective programs. I think Susankate has posted about some very effective programs that sadly are not readily available.
First there are other factors you are not considering. Also, there's a big difference between availability of programs & access to effective programs. I think Susankate has posted about some very effective programs that sadly are not readily available.
If you support teenage parenthood, this is your right. I don't support it, I don't condone it.
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