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And by the way - he is a child - they are the adults. If anyone is to blame for Allan not calling his new parents "mom and dad", it's your BIL and SIL - not the (then) 11 year old placed in their home. I suspect they aren't showing the love they claim to have for him out of fear - but you know what? Just show him love - unconditional love and watch the changes. Sounds like they all need therapy.
Never, ever give him unsupervised access to your girls, or anyone else's children, not even for a minute.
Exactly. He is a sexual predator so it may be a challenge to keep him away from the girls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_J
She would have SLAPPED me in the face! And hard enough so that I would certainly think twice before doing it again.
I have never heard of a boy doing this to his mother. Of course, lying on a bed with a boy at that age...........
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBOTPARTY
You know, the way some of you are talking about this boy - a 13 year old child - is disgusting. If you have no live or compassion in you, maybe you should stay away children yourselves. You really need to have compassion for this boy - have you asked your husband what he was like when he was that age? As a man having experience with boys/guys that have been through a lot of trauma, I can tell you that even growing up in a supportive and very healthy environment with both parents doesn't prevent sexual urges that can be overwhelming especially at that age. Because he is somewhat new to the family and he was introduced at the age where he was already interested in girls, it would be considered perfectly normal for him to be attracted to a women, even if she had the "label" of adoptive parent. He probably was abused sexually, and thus his boundaries are a bit off. He should not be around your daughters because well, would it be appropriate in any situation to have strange teenagers around your daughters being the age that yet are? That would never be appropriate in that type of situation, unless brothers and sisters from birth. I would suggest that the mother talk to him directly but in an understanding "female role model" friend to a friend kind of way - NOT a scolding or judgemental way - this will cause further psychological harm as he will carry shame, anger etc. and plus will not be very affective. She needs to tell him that she cares about him, loves him no matter what, and will always live him and protect him. If he's made to feel his behavior is ok and normal but inappropriate given that she is his new mother, but that it's "ok" to feel that way, then that will help. It should also be mentioned that he should never touch someone without them knowing - possibly try to compare this to a situation he can understand, because in his mind touching without asking may be normal due to sexual abuse. For example, if he has a sister or another someone else he cares a lot about, ask him would he like it if he found out someone forced themselves on that person? The key is being loving, understanding, forgiving and compassionate - he needs someone to love him unconditionally and to show that and tell him that. He probably has not had much of that in life so a little goes a long way.
Unfortunately, the belief that love cures all is not correct. I agree with the others that this boy needs inpatient therapy before he does very serious harm. For those that are aware of the situation and choose not to get involved, well, they are involved. How would you feel if this boy does rape a cousin, etc. knowing that you knew it would be very possible and by telling the right source, it could have been prevented?
Too many times and probably for this child, they thought if they found the "right" home, all would be well. Not!
One thing that doesn't sit right is that when we adopted a special needs infant, we had 1 visit per month for 3 months prior to the adoption being finalized and had the child not been an infant, it would have been 1 visit per month for 6 months. They discuss how the placement is going and if there are any problems that you need help with.
I know this is "icky" but the mother may desire the attention/be flattered by the attention of the boy. It happens.
And CPS would probably get involved if they knew what was going on since the child's problem is not being addressed in a proper manner, think negligence. The therapist could be as nutty as the mother.
One case manager tried to talk us into taking on a little girl that had been sexually abused. She was very descriptive of what we might expect. I had two other children and a husband in the household. She felt we could handle it. Ah, no.
I'm not entirely sure what this means. All I mean is that I do not believe he is being treated properly for his issues and aggression. I think that with proper counseling and support, he has the possibility to get better. I do not think he is a lost cause. I think if CPS gets involved and he is yanked from the home and placed in another foster situation, it could cause further damage.
I am, however. committed to making sure he begins to get the treatment he needs. Now that I know, I do feel a moral obligation to help him by seeing that he gets further and appropriate help.
We initially asked to meet with my BIL and SIL with a neutral therapist. They refused. When we told them (by email) that the girls were not to be around Allan, we also included how we were also upset with the poor judgment they had shown in protecting our children and keeping Allan's sexual inappropriateness from us. We also expressed our concerns that they were blinded by their love for them and were in denial about how bad things were. We begged them to get more help for them all. We also reiterated that we did want to see Allan (take him fishing or something) and see them - just without the girls. We again said we would be happy to meet with their therapist or anyone they wanted.
After a week we received only a brief, angry response from my BIL to my husband (his brother). "Is this also how you feel about me, my wife and my child"? (The email came from my account although it was signed from us both). Hub replied yes, we love you, we are worried and we want to get together with you to talk, and suggested dates. It's been about 5 days and we have heard nothing.
If they choose not to respond, our next move is to get hub and BIL's parents together to talk it over. They know something is up because we had to tell them the girls weren't to be around Allan. We didn't tell them exactly why. But, if they refuse to come to terms with the mess of their family, I have no problem going to BIL's parents and telling them everything. Maybe they can talk some sense into them.
If that doesn't work, I will get SIL's family together and we will have an intervention. If that still doesn't work, I will report the abuse.
I know that sounds like a lot of steps, but we will act quickly if they do not respond with meaningful action.
BTW - I don't think you should force an adopted child to call you mom and dad. I'm just wondering if it's unusual that he hasn't done it on his own after all this time and considering how much and how quickly he seems to warm up to everyone else.
I'm not entirely sure what this means. All I mean is that I do not believe he is being treated properly for his issues and aggression. I think that with proper counseling and support, he has the possibility to get better. I do not think he is a lost cause. I think if CPS gets involved and he is yanked from the home and placed in another foster situation, it could cause further damage.
I am, however. committed to making sure he begins to get the treatment he needs. Now that I know, I do feel a moral obligation to help him by seeing that he gets further and appropriate help.
We initially asked to meet with my BIL and SIL with a neutral therapist. They refused. When we told them (by email) that the girls were not to be around Allan, we also included how we were also upset with the poor judgment they had shown in protecting our children and keeping Allan's sexual inappropriateness from us. We also expressed our concerns that they were blinded by their love for them and were in denial about how bad things were. We begged them to get more help for them all. We also reiterated that we did want to see Allan (take him fishing or something) and see them - just without the girls. We again said we would be happy to meet with their therapist or anyone they wanted.
After a week we received only a brief, angry response from my BIL to my husband (his brother). "Is this also how you feel about me, my wife and my child"? (The email came from my account although it was signed from us both). Hub replied yes, we love you, we are worried and we want to get together with you to talk, and suggested dates. It's been about 5 days and we have heard nothing.
If they choose not to respond, our next move is to get hub and BIL's parents together to talk it over. They know something is up because we had to tell them the girls weren't to be around Allan. We didn't tell them exactly why. But, if they refuse to come to terms with the mess of their family, I have no problem going to BIL's parents and telling them everything. Maybe they can talk some sense into them.
If that doesn't work, I will get SIL's family together and we will have an intervention. If that still doesn't work, I will report the abuse.
I know that sounds like a lot of steps, but we will act quickly if they do not respond with meaningful action.
That sounds like a reasonable plan of action.
Of course I don't know how it works there but I wouldn't just assume that CPS would take him away if they got involved, they are supposed to help keep families together if its possible, so it would be more like insisting on better therapy and that kind of thing.
At this point, I wouldnt worry about what he calls his parents, that's between them and him and w/b the last thing on my mind, there's more important issues going on and I hope it gets resolved quickly for the safety and well being of the 3 of them
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojow
BTW - I don't think you should force an adopted child to call you mom and dad. I'm just wondering if it's unusual that he hasn't done it on his own after all this time and considering how much and how quickly he seems to warm up to everyone else.
It sounds to me as if your SIL is putting her own sense of inadequacy in parenting this boy ahead of the best interests of the boy, so she and her husband are denying the seriousness of the situation. It also sounds as if they have made very little effort to establish appropriate boundaries, perhaps out of fear of rejection from the boy. I also wonder if her professional background isn't a significant factor here - false pride in her ability to "fix" difficult situations right in her own family and fear of being viewed negatively should such a situation become publicly known (or even known within the extended family).
Why on earth did someone with her professional background think it was appropriate to lie down with this boy? There are other, more suitable ways of showing affection and love without verging on the sexual. This is something which should have been very basic with her. And what good was served by shoving the boy's obvious sexual interest - and actions - under the rug as both parents have done and are doing?
It sounds as if there is a lot of confusion, sexual trauma and dysfunction in this boy's past, probably far more than his adoptive parents are sharing with you. It also sounds as if they are attempting to minimize its impact, despite the clear evidence that such impact was severe and long-lasting and still very present.
Did your SIL view this boy as some sort of do-it-yourself project, given her profession?? Was she unable to separate her professional role from her maternal role? Is she so unclear about (or more likely, in denial about) what is appropriate and what is profoundly, negatively symptomatic that she is willing to sacrifice this boy's future - and perhaps, the safety and well-being of those around him - for her own pride and sense of self?? It surely appears so.
There is so much wrong with what you describe that I'd hardly know how to begin to address it, other than by doing what you already plan to do. Keep your own children safe, spread the word within your extended family, perhaps talk to the counselor at the boy's school about your concerns, speak to any neighbors with children who are in contact with this boy - forget confidentiality, safety is the concern here. Contact the adoption agency and social worker if you can.
This boy is a potential and probable danger to himself and to others, and while I feel great sadness for him and hope that somehow he can be "salvaged", I see little hope that this will occur under the circumstances you describe.
I think an intervention is unlikely to be well-received initially, but it might plant some seeds that would eventually break through his mother's rock-hard denial...
I'm so very distressed. BIL talked to my husband last night - the first contact in about two weeks. We sent them two emails requesting we get together and talk. Basically - they hate me. SIL doesn't ever want to see me or talk to me. They are very angry about the email we sent (below):
Dear BIL and SIL,
I know it's taken us a while to get back to you on this. We've given it a great deal of thought and consulted with professionals including our own therapist. Right now, we think it's best if Allan and the girls do not spend time together - even supervised.
As you have said, Allan's background has created situations in which he has not been taught and fails to appreciate appropriate boundaries. Between his violation of SIL and the potential of suspected incest between he and his sister, it is clear he does not recognize sexual boundaries between family members. This, combined with his recent increasingly unstable and aggressive behavior cause us to feel that the girls safety could be compromised if they continue to spend time with Allan.
I'm sure you are wondering why they can't just be supervised. We do not feel there is any level of supervision that will guarantee their safety. Our girls adore Allan. They love to chase him, hug him, climb on him and tackle him. We feel that trying to explain to them why they can not engage in any of these physical activities would be confusing to them and expose them to information and a world they do not need to know about.
To be honest, our reservations about Allan also encompass the concern we have over the judgement you have shown as well. We know you love Allan, but the more we learn about his behavior, especially his behavior in the past few months, the more it becomes clear to us that your family is spiraling out of control. We feel your judgement is clouded by your love for Allan, your shame and embarrassment over the situation, fear of what Allan will do next, a desire to hide and isolate the problem and an overwhelming sense of denial that things are as not bad as they are - or potentially even worse.
We are also saddened and angry over the lack of judgement you have shown in caring enough about the girls' safety to reveal to us Allan's sexual misconduct. We came to you suggesting we keep them all supervised. We were never given any direction or instruction or warnings to protect our children. We were never told when things escalated or got worse. Rarely have you taken the responsibility to provide the supervision they needed or stopped Allan from wrestling on the floor with them or engaging in physical activity. You sent him to our house, over night, to sleep next to our children, without any consideration for what might have happened or any suggestion of a safety plan. On one hand, you declare Allan would never hurt the girls. On the other, you confess that you worried the entire time he was here. If we were not who we are, if we did not have a family of social workers who worked with foster children, if I weren't versed in psychology, trauma, the effects of sexual abuse and otherwise educated, it is entirely probable that our girls would have been placed in situations that would have made them vulnerable to molestation and abuse.
Because of the lack of judgment you have shown, the over-reaching place of denial that you are living in and the apparent lack of specific and intentional treatment for Allan, as well as the circumstances that have recently transpired and the bonds of trust we know are broken, we also do not feel that you would be honest with us about Allan's future escalations of behavior or that we can trust you to make decisions that are in the best interest of our children in regards to Allan. It seems that it is more important to hide what is happening and pretend everything is ok, than be honest about the situation as it stands. Everything we have heard from you has minimized your situation. "It's not as bad as you think", we are told. I actually think it is even worse than we think because you, as parents, are more invested in protecting Allan than getting him the help he needs. This is how is appears from our perspective.
A little story:
The morning after the Saturday that you were all at our house (and I had the big talk with SIL), (one daughter) got up and went straight to her writing table in the loft. It was the first thing she did. She was agitated and grumpy and begin drawing pictures. The first thing she did was write "I can't belong anywhere" across a piece of paper. Then she proceeded to draw a picture of our family - she was on the left, then a space with a large design separated her from me, daddy and (other daughter). On our bellies she drew a picture. Daddy, Sister and Mommy all had sunshine pictures. Daughter's belly was a cloudy storm. We all felt happy inside and she felt stormy and cloudy.
On the heels of our discussion SIL, I can not tell you the feeling in the pit of my stomach as she curled up in my lap in a tiny ball and I tried to find out what made her feel so cloudy inside. Why do you feel stormy inside? Did something happen to make you feel stormy inside? I asked the questions in different ways, trying to find out if something had happened to her - if our worst fears would be confirmed.
We do not believe anything did happen to Daughter. It was a coincidental manifestation of her own internal issues that we have her in psychotherapy and neurotherapy for. But, I can not describe the moments of indecision as we sat there - and since then - wondering if, just maybe, we had missed something. Had she been with Allan alone too long? Had something actually happened?
We never want to have a conversation like that and wonder about it again. Once something like that happens, you can't take it back. You can't say, "I just never thought anything would really happen." It's too late then - for our girls - and for Allan.
We don't know how to say how long this will last. We know we would need to see or hear of significant improvements in Allan behavior. It's difficult to request knowing what his therapy addresses, but I think until we know he is receiving specialized and intentional therapy for sexual trauma and sexual misconduct we would be reluctant to allow him around the girls again. Until he is able to acknowledge what has happened to him and acknowledge what he has done to others, he will not be able to heal and make progress. We also think that we would need to see significant changes in your family system before we felt like the girls were safe. Until it appears that you are able to see your own situation clearly and we can trust your judgment about Allan, we feel like we have to protect our children as fully as possible.
We know this is an upsetting letter and an upsetting course of action. Our therapist said something to us though. She said, "safety is more important than protecting people's feelings". This is the point to which we feel we have come. We love you all very much. But, your hurt feelings and potential reaction can no longer temper our responsibility to do what is in the best interest of our children - or for Allan. We worry about his safety - emotionally, physically, and sexually. We think he is a fantastic kid with great potential but he is on a path of destruction borne from his past, his own actions and the structure and dysfunction within your family. We fear for him. We fear for what will happen next to him, and we desperately beg you to do something different. A new therapist, an additional therapist, group therapy, intense family therapy, individual therapy for every one, a residential home so Allan can get the support and help he deserves - not just needs - but absolutely deserves and you can restructure your family life to provide the support he needs when he returns. We beg you to please do something to save this child. We know you are doing something. But, it's not enough. It's getting worse instead of better. We beg you to do MORE - for all of your sakes.
We know you will be angry and hurt. We are willing to accept and handle those emotions. We are hurting with you and for you. We are angry for you that this is how everything has turned out. We know you never imagined it would be this way. And, we are so sorry for all this pain, all this heartache and for the division that would exist between us.
We do love you all so much. We would love to see you when the girls are away or busy, or just take Allan alone to fish. We do not want to cut you out of our lives by any means. It just has to look different for a while.
We are still open and eager to meet with you and your therapist. We will talk to anyone you wish with you.
We love you.
Jojo and Husbend
-----
And now they hate us - or rather they hate me. In response to BIL's terse, "do you feel this way", my husband sent the following:
If you're asking if I'm as concerned as Jojo is about what is going on with your family, then yes I do feel that way. Yes, we are saddened by what we've seen and have been told. Yes, we are a little angry that our daughters were placed in a potentially dangerous situation of which we were not apprised of. Our main concern is obviously for our girls and we want to make sure that the people they interact with are safe for them. With what we've learned about the relationship issues that Allan has, both Jojo and I are very worried and disappointed.
Brother, we love you and SIL and Allan. We will do anything to help you all. You know this. But if you don't realize the issues that we have and can't see why we would be concerned about the safety of our daughters and the health of your family, then I don't know what else to do.
I am tired of doing this via email though. We need to meet face to face and hash this out. Unfortunately Jojo will be going out of town this weekend and next week and I will be too (although to different places). Can we agree to meet up in 2 weeks?
Brother, SIL, please please listen to me when I tell you that we love you and want the best for you and your family. We love Allan and want him to get better and get the help he needs. We want your marriage and your relationship with Allan to thrive. We know this is hard to hear and that you both may be angry with us. But we do love you all.
Brother
----
So even though my hub said a lot of the same things, I have become the scapegoat, which doesn't really surprise me, but still sucks. Hub really wants to keep the communication open with his brother so maybe he can keep encouraging him to get help.
They had a long conversation last night and basically, we just don't understand. We don't know everything and aren't "in their shoes" and basically have no right to any opinion. They have made a lot of "progress" - what this progress is, he won't say. He took no responsibility for placing our children in potential danger or failing to supervise their child while he was around them. They don't think they have done anything wrong. They've picked their therapist and their course of action and will stay on that path - come hell or high water - or I suppose, jail.
I feel so horrible. I'm not surprised by anything, but I still feel terrible. I think we should talk to Hub's parents and tell them everything but Hub is hesitant. He's afraid if they then speak to BIL, they will hate us more and stop talking to Hub too.
I'm torn between thinking it's good that BIL will still talk to Hub and feeling like they should be told, "if you are going to hate Jojo and not want to speak or see her, then the same goes for me because I feel the same way she does. Maybe I would have said it differently, but I agree completely with everything she said."
They are putting this all on us - that WE have done this to our relationship, that we are the reason we can never get together and that's not true at all. It's not even Allan's fault. He is a child. He is a product of his past and his current dysfunctional, toxic environment. This is all about BIL and SIL poor judgment and failure to act and their choices to compromise our children's safety - and the fact that they can't recognize that they did.
BIL kept saying I was "judging" him and was all self-righteous about it. Well, yes, yes I am. Whenever people throw that word out like it's a bad thing it's because they don't want to hear the truth of criticism. "Don't judge me" means I want to do whatever I want and you shouldn't say anything about it at all. We are judging them. We are judging their actions and inactions and their state of mind. And, we find them lacking.
What should we do now? Should we talk to his parents? Should we tell them everything including the sexual stuff (which will REALLY **** BIL and SIL off)? We have told them the girls can't be with Allan but haven't told them why - and that's why. Why should we continue to keep that secret potentially putting other children at risk. I think BIL and family are going to a family reunion this summer where there will be other younger children. Should hub's parents know so they can keep an eye on him. I'm sure BIL and SIL won't give it another thought. Do we talk to the parents and only ask them if they see a problem in general? I just don't know what to do without making the situation worse. Then I think, how much worse can it get, they already hate me.
First of all, that's a great, compassionate yet firm letter. Yet I can see why Allan's parents would be upset - you are forcing them out of denial. So - they're turning their dismay into anger and blame towards you. Nice.
And it's not your fault: rightfully and regretfully, you've done what is necessary to protect your children. You've been very straight with Allan's parents about the reason and have suggested and urged them to obtain effective treatment for him. In response, they've dug themselves deeper into denial and converted what is likely to be their own dismay and buried sense of responsibility into anger against you.
That said, it's good that your husband and his brother are still talking. If you do meet with these inlaws, might it be a good idea to have a neutral mediator present, to keep the conversation on track and I hope, productive?
And yes, you must do what is necessary to protect the other children in the extended family, especially as they are younger and thus more vulnerable. If this upsets the other adult relatives and changes the family dynamics, that's unfortunate but irrelevant to the need to protect the other children. If you don't protect them, knowing that Allan is a predator, then you bear moral responsibility for his behavior, and perhaps legal responsibility as well. So - awkward and distressing as it may be, talk with the other adults. It's okay to tell them initially that you have something disturbing that needs to be said in order to protect the children - really stress the protection of the children as the main focus, not Allan's aberrant behavior.
Yes, I'd include the grandparents. No doubt they will be distressed, but I also expect they are aware that teens can be sexual predators, and their focus should be on protecting the other grandchildren, as well as on finding effective help for Allan. If Allan's parents are further upset, so be it. They are not what is at issue here, except for their inadequate parenting and foolish choices.
Best wishes to you and your extended family and your children, especially to your older daughter. I am so sad for her...and am glad you are aware of her distress and are taking action to address it. This may be the evidence you need to convince the other adult relatives that something absolutely must be done, for the sake of all the children (you don't need to go into details about your daughter's experience and distress, of course - respecting her privacy is extremely important, but so is preventing anything like this from recurring).
As a parent of a young girl, I would have made the same decision to protect her. I don't have any experience with what your family is going through, I am just so sorry. I cannot imagine what happened to him in his past and I don't know how they can go forward. This is definitely some special type of parenting that is going to need some rock star expert involved. You did not overreact. As far as telling extended family; if there is potential for Allan to be around *any* young children at all, I believe the grandparents need to be involved.
Last edited by cjmeck; 06-25-2014 at 08:18 PM..
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