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And I mean to paint broadly. I no longer care to beat around the bush with this topic. There is no ethical way to do adoption. There are just least ethical ways. International adoption is grossly unethical and amounts to human trafficking. Period. You can start a new topic if you wish to learn more.
You're the one who brought this up, so I'll let you be the one to start a new thread. I can assure you that I will read it with great interest.
It's quite broad, that brush with which you are painting.
Amen. This is way too general a statement, particularly in regard to international adoption of kids with special needs. There was a LONG, controversial discussion that went on for months and months here about this very topic several years ago. I thought it had finally been hashed out for good, but apparently not.
How many families do you know who have internationally adopted children, particularly children with special needs? They could tell you very different stories. I do not deny that there is still corruption in adoption - both domestic and international - but that is certainly not always the case as you imply.
And I mean to paint broadly. I no longer care to beat around the bush with this topic. There is no ethical way to do adoption. There are just least ethical ways. International adoption is grossly unethical and amounts to human trafficking. Period. You can start a new topic if you wish to learn more.
No, I think we'd rather respond to your sweeping statements above rather than start a new thread, as you make these claims.
"Human trafficking" =international adoption, my foot. Please learn more about both topics. I'd advise you to start with talking to parents who've adopted internationally, and by seeking out websites which are not those of the outrageously anti-adoption organizations, as well as even-handed websites which discuss the ethics of adoption and potential problems adoptive parents may encounter in country.
It is undeniable that there have been problems in the past, and that some linger. But many governments in the developing world are making a genuine effort to clean up and expedite the system, in order to move kids into either adoptive families of their own nationality, decent foster homes in their birth countries, or be listed for international adoption more quickly, if neither of the other options are feasible. Kids with special needs fall into this latter category, as they are very rarely adopted domestically or placed in government sponsored foster homes.
Now, this IS an all-too-common problem in all-too-many countries: children as young as five or six(!) with physical differences such as arthrogryposis (look it up), cerebral palsy, etc., along with children of the same age with Down syndrome or other developmental delays are routinely sent to remote, poorly funded mental institutions where they are in daily contact with other residents who range up to 35 years of age. These children receive no education or training and precious little health care. Many are kept in bed 24/7. Many die. If they survive and are not adopted, they'll remain there until they are 35, after which they'll be send to old-age homes. At 35.
I know a little boy who lived in such a place for three years. Thankfully, he was adopted into a great American family, is receiving the ongoing surgeries he needed (not available in his home country), and is a talented artist at age ten or eleven now. His family has more recently adopted another little boy with arthrogryposis, who is also doing well. They would have been lost forever in their home country...but they were thriving when I saw them in June.
These are the conditions that many countries are attempting to change. Ukraine is one such country. Thanks to Putin's invasion and war, orphanages have even lower priority now and less funding. But the need remains.
If you doubt me, look up Torez Special Needs Orphanage in Ukraine. Thankfully, its residents have been moved elsewhere - Torez was close to the site where the passenger plane was shot down, most likely by Russian soldiers. Or look up Romaniv Orphanage (or you may need to search for Romaniv Mental Institution). Better than it once was, thanks to some great non-profits, but still so very, very needy and totally inadequate. Some of the residents would be self-supporting now, had they been blessed with good families from an early age. Instead, all but a handful will be institutionalized for life, a huge waste of human potential.
Or look up Pleven, in Bulgaria. Few visitors knew what was on the sixth floor there: children with Down syndrome, including a nine-year-old girl whose weight equaled her age. She's home now, and rather famous in adoption circles: Katie Musser. That orphanage director is gone - sort of - but the place is still at risk of returning to its former conditions. The Musser family and the press were the whistle-blowers.
Do you really think this is preferable to being adopted into loving families whose nationalities differ from that of the children's nationality?
I would like to think that conditions such as these are what you refer to when you cite "corruption" in international adoption - but I did not get that impression. It sounds more as if you are blaming families who've adopted internationally instead, and that is unjust. Please learn more about this topic before casting such blame - thank you.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 09-24-2016 at 12:41 PM..
Below is a description of what adoption is generally like in Ukraine, but much of this also applies to other countries, although the details may differ somewhat. Children up to age 16 can be adopted and brought into the United States, according to U.S. law (older kids can be adopted if part of a sibling group with younger children), but China limits adoptions of its children to only those under age 14. If you are 14 or older, you're stuck if you happen to live in a Chinese orphanage...
In many countries, potential adoptive parents start their trip at the national agency for adoption, located in the capital city, where lists of children, usually with photos and some background information, can be found. The family finds a child or children they'd like to meet, then get permission to visit the child in their orphanage, which may be local or far away. If the family already has a child or children in mind, information about this child must also be found at the national agency, and permission must be received to meet the child. Most families hire a facilitator to translate, arrange transportation and accommodations, and help cut through the red tape. Good facilitators are ethical and experienced and can make the process much, much less difficult.
Once they meet the child or children, would-be adoptive parents spend several days with the children before committing to adoption. They are free to talk with orphanage directors and caregivers and teachers in many cases.
Some children may be listed under pseudonyms online, with otherwise accurate information about them: age, special needs if any, interests and abilities, and so on ("'Tatiana' is eleven years old. She wears glasses but is a healthy child who wants a family. She likes to read but needs help in math. She loves cats and would like to have one").
There are also non-profits which bring older kids over for a few weeks at Christmas or during the summer, for "enrichment", as guests of hosting families - many of these children find homes, if not with their hosting family, then frequently with friends of the family. Adoptions of hosted children must follow the same guidelines as any other adoptions from their home country, which usually includes massive amounts of red tape and documentation on the part of the adoptive family. Homes, financial stability, and family members' stability, etc.
Families must be vetted by social workers, and the home country is free to reject families which don't qualify.
Once in country, adoptive families may already know of a child or children they'd like to adopt, or they may engage in "blind adoption", in which they do not know the child but know what age, gender, degree of special need and so on they're interesting in adopting. They are usually listed as eligible to adopt up to a certain number of children, related or unrelated, and within a certain age bracket. Different countries have different requirements. If a family certified to adopt two siblings meets a sibling group of three they would like to adopt, they can often get permission from the home country, but not without considerable red tape.
But let's say all goes well: the family gets permission, travels and meets the child, everyone is pro-adoption, and after a couple of weeks or so, an adoption court is held. The judge approves the adoption.
Now comes a waiting period, in many countries, before the adoption is legal, to see if any blood relatives surface to contest the adoption. If this occurs, all is not lost, but the relatives have to present the judge with their reasons for objecting and their plans to support the child. This very, very rarely occurs. Sometimes adoptive parents fly home during the waiting period, especially if the child they're adopting is considerably older or younger than they expected, or if they are adopting a large sibling group than anticipated, so that they can prepare for the unexpected.
After the waiting period, the family returns and receives physical custody of the child. Now they must go to the child's birthplace, to get the birth certificate altered to include their names as the child's legal parents. The child may remain in the orphanage during this time, as it can be tedious and tiring.
Once the paperwork is completed, the family goes to the capital city for yet MORE paperwork, doctor's exam to make sure the child is healthy enough to enter the U.S., vaccinations, a trip to the American Embassy and usually a little sight-seeing and a visit to the city market to buy souvenirs, often traditional attire for both child and parents.
Then it's finally time to come home. Many families keep a very low profile during their child's first weeks at home, particularly if it's a child who's been institutionalized for a long time. Family life is very, very different from life in an orphanage, and it takes time for everyone to adjust. So although it's tempting to make life full of ice cream cones and pony rides, this is not advisable initially. (well, maybe an ice cream cone now and then!) Doctor and dentist visits are a must, building a wardrobe and providing toys, working on English and other communication skills, (flashcards are great), and slowly introducing the child to their new life seem to work best to avoid overwhelming the child.
Next post will deal with FAS and RAD. Not the same, not always present in the same child. Stay tuned.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 09-24-2016 at 12:01 PM..
I've discussed my fears about RAD briefly in other threads.
We are considering adoption but still on the fence. I've been married 15 years and can't have children. I thought that we would just go through life childless but now in my early 40s I'm really considering adoption.
But I do have doubts and fears as all prospective parents do. RAD is a real fear of mine. It's probably my biggest fear. The idea of having a child and loving him or her so much and then realizing they have no attachment to us.
I've spent all weekend watching videos of parents of children with RAD and the utter heartbreak they deal with. I hear conflicting reports though. Some say the early signs were having a child that made no eye contact and didn't want to be held. But another woman said that the 3 year old they adopted from Russia was very charming with them from day one. Lot's of smiles and hugs until they got him home. And then he became a nightmare. She said children with RAD tend to be charming and charismatic to strangers and detached to their caregivers.
So how on earth is someone to know any early signs? The kid who doesn't seem to care about you can have RAD as well as the kid who is hugging you and smiling?
I've read a lot of forums on adoptions from China and I can't say that I read a lot about children from there with RAD. On the other hand it seemed adoptions from Russia and Ukraine were loaded with stories about kids with RAD. With Russia they blame the orphanages, yet both China and Russia have orphanages for their children.
On the other hand, the US doesn't have orphanages and yet I read lots of stories of children with RAD coming from US foster homes.
So I just don't know. And please nobody accuse me of wanting a perfect child. That is far from the truth. We are aware that kids are kids. I have 8 nieces and nephews whom I've watched since they were babies. We don't care about race, gender and we are open to special needs, and disabilities. I'm very open to a child with down syndrome. But RAD just scares me to my core. And if there is no way to avoid it then maybe adoption isn't for us.
thank ahead of time for any and all information, advice and experiences here.
There are no guarantees when it comes to parenthood. Parenthood by birth or adoption. They are bouth fraught with uncertainties.
Asia is not immune to RAD or FAS.
I know personally a couple who adopted from Korea about 20 years ago when I did. Her daughter has BOTH. And she came here at 4 months. I know of a family who have three children adopted from Korea who have issues. They adopted again. From another country. No problems.
Conversely, I know of couples who adopted older children from Ukraine and others from Russia, who have lovely children with no problems.
Also, I know people - my first cousin - who adopted two girls from China. One has some issues - not terrible, another has none.
I know of biological parents who are afraid of one of their own children. We know a couple, both highly educated who have three biological children. They were raised the same way.
One of their BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN began doing things that were alarming at an early age.
At 15 he tried to BURN THE HOUSE DOWN. These are good people. They tried and still love and care for their son.
However, for their own safety, and for the safety of their other children, he resides in a therapeutic boarding school. Had he been ADOPTED, everyone would say it was RAD or FAS.
But this is their biological son.
I am not trying to scare the pants off you. I am only saying that ALL parenthood involves a leap of FAITH.
My FAITH sustains me. With children, both biological and adopted, there are no money back guarantees.
No playbook to ensure perfection. There is love. Keeping informed and involved, hope, trust, hard work and FAITH.
Now that our nest is once again empty, we intend to fill it once again through adoption.
Parenthood is not for the faint of heart. But for us, it has been worth it.
FAS/FAE and RAD are not the same things. They may occur independently or in the same child, but one does not indicate the presence of the other.
FAE indicates "effects" of the mother's alcohol consumption on the fetus. These effects are physical - there are certain facial features which are associated with FAE. It's not an ugly look at all and can be very subtle, and often difficult to distinguish from genetic traits which are not associated with alcohol consumption. Knowing something about the prenatal history of the mother and child can help distinguish one from the other. Widely-set eyes, lack of or a shallow philtrum, and low-set ears are some of the more obvious features.
But a child with these physical traits may or may not have the mental and emotional damage which can also be caused by alcohol consumption during pregnancy, or the damage may be very slight, as in mild learning disabilities but otherwise normal intelligence. It depends on when the excessive alcohol consumption occurred during the pregnancy, and how much was consumed. Early in the pregnancy is the time of greatest danger of damage to the fetus.
Sadly, vodka is cheaper than bottled water in much of Eastern Europe, and tap water is rarely safe to drink. A mother may not realize she is pregnant until several months elapse, thus contributing to the risk.
FAS is much worse than FAE, and does indicate mental damage and potential emotional control difficulties which may persist throughout the child's life. Learning disabilities may include memory, difficult with complex concepts, although the child may do well enough at the early elementary level, and some physical problems may also appear, particularly in the parts of the face and head affected. "Railroad track ears" may indicate hearing loss, and cleft palate and lip may be associated with FAS. Visual problems may also occur, and eartubes may be required due to the low positioning of the ears.
RAD is something else. It has to do with attachment - when a tiny child's cries bring no response, that baby ceases to cry. Later, when a toddler, if no one responds to a skinned knee or other minor playground injury, the child may begin to laugh in response to pain. Or the child may cease to feel pain, as it is a constant.
They may still seek out adult affection - but with any adult present rather than with one consistent caregiver, as they have no consistent caregiver in most cases. Many orphanage visitors have commented on being thronged by small children who want to be hugged, held, and who offer hugs and kisses to any visitors, whom they address as "Mama" or "Papa", no matter who they are, and some visitors are charmed by these delightful little friendly, affectionate children. It is a charming sight indeed - but it indicates so much deprivation.
Trust does not build with these little ones, unless slowly rebuilt and put back into place. So it's sadly not unusual for the behavior of a newly-adopted child who was very affectionate, always smiling, and quite pleasant in all ways to change once home, as the child tries out the trust of his or her new parents.
The child may act out in unforeseen ways. They may become mouthy and negative. They may refuse food at the table, even known favorites, then steal and hoard food from the kitchen. They may be charming to the extreme with strangers or extended family members (who should be informed about attachment issues before meeting their new little relatives), yet reject and try their parents continually. Patience, understanding, compassion and even a sense of humor are great assets for adoptive parents of newly- home children with attachment symptoms.
Usually the trying behavior diminishes after a few months, though it may persist and show up when the child is stressed or in new situations. But in a few cases, it not only persists but becomes quite extreme, including violence towards the parents, pets, siblings, and playmates, while remaining charming and affectionate to those more distant such as teachers, etc. Counseling is a must in such cases, and individual treatment works best, as each case is different, though with some commonalities.
It has been said that children with RAD become adults with borderline personality disorder, and there are some traits common to both. RAD usually originates from lack of trust created by neglect and inconsistent caregiving, and it can occur in birth families as well as in adoptive families. With proper treatment, it can be overcome to various degrees.
RAD combined with FAS exacerbates the symptoms of RAD, as the child may not have the capacity to understand the roots of their own behavior and intense anger and resentment and resulting difficulty in trusting others, also part of RAD.
So - read up on it, learn about it, keep an open mind.
I know one young lady who has mild symptoms of FAE - one railroad track ear, shallow philtrum, ear tubes as a young child, a short attention span and sometimes close to ADD behavior when first home - but whose intelligence is normal to high. She has a rich imagination, a lot of creativity and artistic ability, and settled nicely in her adoptive home at age almost seven. She is doing well in college now, with no obvious remaining adverse effects or learning disabilities. No signs of RAD whatsoever.
So, appearances can be deceiving, and good parenting, patience, lack of physical punishment (essential in such cases) and consistency are essential.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 09-24-2016 at 12:43 PM..
FAS/FAE and RAD are not the same things. They may occur independently or in the same child, but one does not indicate the presence of the other.
FAE indicates "effects" of the mother's alcohol consumption on the fetus. These effects are physical - there are certain facial features which are associated with FAE. It's not an ugly look at all and can be very subtle, and often difficult to distinguish from genetic traits which are not associated with alcohol consumption. Knowing something about the prenatal history of the mother and child can help distinguish one from the other. Widely-set eyes, lack of or a shallow philtrum, and low-set ears are some of the more obvious features.
But a child with these physical traits may or may not have the mental and emotional damage which can also be caused by alcohol consumption during pregnancy, or the damage may be very slight, as in mild learning disabilities but otherwise normal intelligence. It depends on when the excessive alcohol consumption occurred during the pregnancy, and how much was consumed. Early in the pregnancy is the time of greatest danger of damage to the fetus.
Sadly, vodka is cheaper than bottled water in much of Eastern Europe, and tap water is rarely safe to drink. A mother may not realize she is pregnant until several months elapse, thus contributing to the risk.
FAS is much worse than FAE, and does indicate mental damage and potential emotional control difficulties which may persist throughout the child's life. Learning disabilities may include memory, difficult with complex concepts, although the child may do well enough at the early elementary level, and some physical problems may also appear, particularly in the parts of the face and head affected. "Railroad track ears" may indicate hearing loss, and cleft palate and lip may be associated with FAS. Visual problems may also occur, and eartubes may be required due to the low positioning of the ears.
RAD is something else. It has to do with attachment - when a tiny child's cries bring no response, that baby ceases to cry. Later, when a toddler, if no one responds to a skinned knee or other minor playground injury, the child may begin to laugh in response to pain. Or the child may cease to feel pain, as it is a constant.
They may still seek out adult affection - but with any adult present rather than with one consistent caregiver, as they have no consistent caregiver in most cases. Many orphanage visitors have commented on being thronged by small children who want to be hugged, held, and who offer hugs and kisses to any visitors, whom they address as "Mama" or "Papa", no matter who they are, and some visitors are charmed by these delightful little friendly, affectionate children. It is a charming sight indeed - but it indicates so much deprivation.
Trust does not build with these little ones, unless slowly rebuilt and put back into place. So it's sadly not unusual for the behavior of a newly-adopted child who was very affectionate, always smiling, and quite pleasant in all ways to change once home, as the child tries out the trust of his or her new parents.
The child may act out in unforeseen ways. They may become mouthy and negative. They may refuse food at the table, even known favorites, then steal and hoard food from the kitchen. They may be charming to the extreme with strangers or extended family members (who should be informed about attachment issues before meeting their new little relatives), yet reject and try their parents continually. Patience, understanding, compassion and even a sense of humor are great assets for adoptive parents of newly- home children with attachment symptoms.
Usually the trying behavior diminishes after a few months, though it may persist and show up when the child is stressed or in new situations. But in a few cases, it not only persists but becomes quite extreme, including violence towards the parents, pets, siblings, and playmates, while remaining charming and affectionate to those more distant such as teachers, etc. Counseling is a must in such cases, and individual treatment works best, as each case is different, though with some commonalities.
It has been said that children with RAD become adults with borderline personality disorder, and there are some traits common to both. RAD usually originates from lack of trust created by neglect and inconsistent caregiving, and it can occur in birth families as well as in adoptive families. With proper treatment, it can be overcome to various degrees.
RAD combined with FAS exacerbates the symptoms of RAD, as the child may not have the capacity to understand the roots of their own behavior and intense anger and resentment and resulting difficulty in trusting others, also part of RAD.
So - read up on it, learn about it, keep an open mind.
I know one young lady who has mild symptoms of FAE - one railroad track ear, shallow philtrum, ear tubes as a young child, a short attention span and sometimes close to ADD behavior when first home - but whose intelligence is normal to high. She has a rich imagination, a lot of creativity and artistic ability, and settled nicely in her adoptive home at age almost seven. She is doing well in college now, with no obvious remaining adverse effects or learning disabilities. No signs of RAD whatsoever.
So, appearances can be deceiving, and good parenting, patience, lack of physical punishment (essential in such cases) and consistency are essential.
I don't think that I equated FAE/FAS with RAD. Not sure if your comments were meant for me, CraigCreek.
I don't think that I equated FAE/FAS with RAD. Not sure if your comments were meant for me, CraigCreek.
What is a "railroad track ear"?
No, they were intended for the OP, who had inquired about both FAE/FAS and RAD - I know you are knowledgeable about these conditions.
Railroad track ear is a condition in which the curves and folds of the outer ear are simpler in appearance than is normal, and more or less parallel, resembling curved railroad tracks. I do not know if it also associated with hearing loss. It usually occurs in both ears, but as in the case I cited, can also appear on only one ear. It can be a marker for FAE/FAS.
I still have to go back and read the other posts regarding adoption = human trafficking.
But let me quickly comment on the FAS/RAD. I know they are two separate issues. Based on my readings of other people's experiences some psychologists believe that FAS is a cause of RAD. Not that they are the same thing.
A child can have FAS and not have RAD. And a child can have RAD and not have FAS. But there seems to be a link between children who are born with FAS later having problems with attaching and bonding.
Really it seems so little is known about these issues and I do wonder if RAD is just broadly diagnosed when counselors just don't know what the heck is going on.
Adoption is not all corrupt and it certainly is not human trafficking. My family is a testament to that. The money we spent to adopt was very well understood, and a vast majority of it went to good foster care. Was the process inefficient? Sure it was, in the same way that taking 6 weeks to get a passport is inefficient, governments can bog down the process and such.
I also volunteer to help end human trafficking, so I'm very aware of what this is. Nothing close to adoption. Once again, I'm sure there are one off cases, and stories of countries that abuse the adoption system, but I'm not talking exceptions here. Where my son comes from, you can argue the ethics of why parents give up their children, but that is independent of my adoption. So not really sure where they were going with that comment?
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