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Old 01-13-2019, 01:33 PM
 
322 posts, read 317,072 times
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We had a new couple visit our church today. Our pastor asked us to invite them out to dinner as a way to welcome them to our church. During our lunch we discussed the current state of adoption. I try to present adoption and our experiences with adoption in a neutral manner, but some things concern me. Costs continue to be an area of concern.

According to: https://creatingafamily.org/adoption...stic-adoption/ average cost for a private domestic infant adoption in 2014 is:

Quote:
Average cost for using an agency: $32,000 – $37,000. Average cost for using an attorney: $28,000 – $32,000. (Total cost, including travel) Cost varies greatly depending on many factors, including:

- Whether adoptive parents spend money searching for prospective birth mothers
- How early in the pregnancy adoptive parents are matched, and thus how many months of living expenses adoptive parents must pay
- What expenses are allowed by the laws of the birth mother’s state (for a great summary of what expenses different states allow, go to the Child Welfare Information Gateway
- Whether the birth mother has health insurance
- Whether the adoptive parents can recoup their expenses if a birth mother changes her mind after the birth and decides not to place her child
- Travel costs
According to the new couple we met, they are being quoted $50,000 - $75,000 per adoption attempt. And they have been told that the birth mother expenses will be a major part of their expenses since licensed private adoption agencies have to offer large birth mother expenses to bring in expectant mothers that will commit to an adoption plan. And no domestic infant adoption are finalized without living expenses.

My husband went into lawyer mode to discuss the problems with birth mother expenses and how they can be used to invalidate an adoption based upon the non-voluntariness of the birth-mother surrenders. Also, all states outlaw purchasing a baby. But at the same token, majority of states allow some amount of living expenses.

So here is my question, when do adoption fees and birth mother expenses cross the line from adoption services to purchasing a baby?

I also like to get everyone's opinion as these approaches.:

- Mandatory donations to a birth mother fund at the adoption agency
- Different adoption agencies bidding up the living expense amounts to lure expectant mother away from one agency to another. The case I'm am aware of is one national agency offering $15,000 and a competition agency offering $30,000. There have also been state bar cases for adoption attorneys doing this as well.

Lastly, the couple also shared with us that many agencies told them that without large living expenses no private domestic infant adoption would happen. I was very sad to hear about all the agencies that this couple had spoken with and this was their policy.
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Old 01-19-2019, 01:40 PM
 
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We don't identify pregnant women as birth mothers even if they've been matched to prospective adopters. We can give pregnant women as much as we want. We just don't expect a baby (even if implied by the pregnant woman) in return nor expect to recoup costs - because she never was a birth mother in the first place, just a pregnant woman. The expectant mother that you referenced, could use an agency that pays $30,000 to lure her, then decide to remain the mother after all. Now the agency is out of the money. It's just the cost of doing business.
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:52 PM
 
322 posts, read 317,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Middletwin View Post
We don't identify pregnant women as birth mothers even if they've been matched to prospective adopters. We can give pregnant women as much as we want. We just don't expect a baby (even if implied by the pregnant woman) in return nor expect to recoup costs - because she never was a birth mother in the first place, just a pregnant woman. The expectant mother that you referenced, could use an agency that pays $30,000 to lure her, then decide to remain the mother after all. Now the agency is out of the money. It's just the cost of doing business.
I have to ask how many adoption agency contracts have you read? I've read a couple and all of them clearly state that the potential adoptive parents risk all birth mother/living expenses monies. Given that reality, how is the adoption agency going to absorb that money?

As the couple we had dinner with stated, "if we lose our birth mother/living expense monies we will not be able to continuing attempting to adopt. It is our greatest fear with adoption."

IMHO, I think many couples have experienced a failed adoption attempt which ended all their hope of adopting a child/infant.
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:59 AM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,292,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xy340 View Post
I have to ask how many adoption agency contracts have you read? I've read a couple and all of them clearly state that the potential adoptive parents risk all birth mother/living expenses monies. Given that reality, how is the adoption agency going to absorb that money?

As the couple we had dinner with stated, "if we lose our birth mother/living expense monies we will not be able to continuing attempting to adopt. It is our greatest fear with adoption."

IMHO, I think many couples have experienced a failed adoption attempt which ended all their hope of adopting a child/infant.
Your post is quite logical and I agree with most of it. Notice the language "adopters" in the last post though.

Generally, that's a clue you're dealing with someone who is truly anti-adoption. You won't convince them and they aren't really interested in discussing this sort of issue.

In answer to your question though there is no "bright line" between adoption expenses and baby buying. The law in my state allows couples trying to adopt to pay "reasonable living expenses and medical expenses" of a prospective birth mother. What "reasonable living expenses" are does not have an objective definition. The judge presiding over the adoption is presented with an adoption petition that outlines what the petitioner believes are reasonable living expenses. The trial judge determines on his/her own if the expenses are "reasonable". If the determination is made that they are and everything else is in order, the Court will grant the petition. There is much room for judges to reach different results with the same set of facts.
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Old 01-23-2019, 10:53 AM
 
1,065 posts, read 597,235 times
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Thank you for using the term, prospective birth mother. Consistency is imperative with ethical adoptions. If there are prospective adopters/adoptive parents, the same holds true for the mother. The problem with these couples, is they may already be identifying a pregnant woman as a birth mother, judging from the op original letter. This is not wrong from a business viewpoint but it's unethical.

Last edited by Middletwin; 01-23-2019 at 11:57 AM..
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Old 01-26-2019, 08:10 PM
 
60 posts, read 66,570 times
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Definitely, state laws allowing payment of expenses for prospective birthmothers is a huge ethical issue, for two reasons:

1. It subtly coerces pregnant women considering adoption to surrender their babies to the people who have have financially supported them throughout the pregnancy and birth.

2. It forces prospective adoptive parents to risk losing a lot of money if the baby isn't surrendered after all.

Funding a pregnant woman's expenses in the hopes of her signing over the rights to her child should be illegal. Period.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:55 AM
 
322 posts, read 317,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzeltwist View Post
Definitely, state laws allowing payment of expenses for prospective birthmothers is a huge ethical issue, for two reasons:

1. It subtly coerces pregnant women considering adoption to surrender their babies to the people who have have financially supported them throughout the pregnancy and birth.

2. It forces prospective adoptive parents to risk losing a lot of money if the baby isn't surrendered after all.

Funding a pregnant woman's expenses in the hopes of her signing over the rights to her child should be illegal. Period.
So how would one go about adopting an infant without funding a pregnant woman's expenses? It definitely calls into question the voluntariness of her surrenders, but adoption agencies insist that no adoptions will occur if you don't pay these expenses. And many couples are hesitant to attempt adoption due to the high likelihood of losing their adoption funds to a failed adoption. The best information I have found is that at least 50% of couples attempting to adopt will end their adoption attempts due to lack of funds that results from a failed adoption attempt.

What is the way forward to reform domestic infant adoption?
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:25 AM
 
1,065 posts, read 597,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xy340 View Post
So how would one go about adopting an infant without funding a pregnant woman's expenses? It definitely calls into question the voluntariness of her surrenders, but adoption agencies insist that no adoptions will occur if you don't pay these expenses. And many couples are hesitant to attempt adoption due to the high likelihood of losing their adoption funds to a failed adoption. The best information I have found is that at least 50% of couples attempting to adopt will end their adoption attempts due to lack of funds that results from a failed adoption attempt.

What is the way forward to reform domestic infant adoption?
With so little commodity in the first place, those fifty percent are actually fortunate to not waste more money, and perhaps if they mentor children in other ways, then those children are the lucky ones.

Reform begins with the correct definition of adoption: it's not about what we want, growing our family - it's simply providing a home and parenting for someone else. We have to remember agencies aren't reminding people of this fact and instead many function like a funeral home selling the most expensive casket during a desperate and emotional time (prospective first parents and prospective second parents).That said, here in the USA, there are agencies that will not allow funding from their customers to a pregnant women that they're grooming for the infant.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Texas
13,480 posts, read 8,374,216 times
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What about donated embryos? That's far less costly than adopting an infant.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:24 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 1,513,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xy340 View Post
So how would one go about adopting an infant without funding a pregnant woman's expenses? It definitely calls into question the voluntariness of her surrenders, but adoption agencies insist that no adoptions will occur if you don't pay these expenses. And many couples are hesitant to attempt adoption due to the high likelihood of losing their adoption funds to a failed adoption. The best information I have found is that at least 50% of couples attempting to adopt will end their adoption attempts due to lack of funds that results from a failed adoption attempt.

What is the way forward to reform domestic infant adoption?
The cost of maternity care, and potential loss of income due to being unable to work (job that can’t be done while pregnant for example) are some of the biggest expenses. In countries where those costs are covered by the government for everyone, regardless of income etc, they don’t have these issues. These two expenses are incidentally also two of the main reasons that some pregnant women end up having to choose options other than keeping their child.
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