Arizona lawmakers block civil asset forfeiture reform bill (fingerprints, safety)

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by bobsell

Both civil asset forfeiture and outrageous fines for traffic offenses have the same goal: More money for cronies.

Civil asset forfeiture without a conviction is horrible and should be stopped.

Traffic fines have to be high enough to be a deterrent to committing the offenses. Some European countries base traffic fines on income. Finland uses half of a day's income as a base.

As for traffic fines being money for cronies, in a large city the amount of fines is going to be a tiny portion of the budget. In Houston, municipal court fines(which is more than just traffic infractions) are budgeted at $30 million in a $2 billion budget. Texas law requires that the amount of fines received that exceeds 30% of the prior year total revenue for cities under 5,000 population be remitted to the State.

[bobsell]

Originally Posted by WRM20

Civil asset forfeiture without a conviction is horrible and should be stopped.

I agree.

Traffic fines have to be high enough to be a deterrent to committing the offenses. Some European countries base traffic fines on income. Finland uses half of a day's income as a base.

I disagree.

The penalty should be 1 day in jail for a typical ticket, and more if the violation is more severe. If this is about safety, then jail time is a great deterrent. Fines just get put in the general fund to be used by corrupt politicians to funnel to cronies.

As for traffic fines being money for cronies, in a large city the amount of fines is going to be a tiny portion of the budget.

I lived in Chicago, and they were making $100 million a year from fines and penalties. But that was years ago, so I suspect that number is now double or triple.

Have you ever heard of New Rome, Ohio?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio

That town was 100% funded by traffic fines.

There are tons of speed trap towns all around the country, and also around the world, where their cops are just IRS agents with badges, and not heroes.

In Houston, municipal court fines(which is more than just traffic infractions) are budgeted at $30 million in a $2 billion budget. Texas law requires that the amount of fines received that exceeds 30% of the prior year total revenue for cities under 5,000 population be remitted to the State.

That's Texas.

And state government will be glad to enrich their cronies with the excess as well.

[Boompa]

Sheriff Joes Geriatric Posse strikes again

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by Boompa

Sheriff Joes Geriatric Posse strikes again

None of the transgressions in this thread were committed by Sheriff Joe's posse. Pima County, Phoenix PD and Democrats blocking reform. Nice try, I guess.

[madison999]

Originally Posted by bobsell

I agree.



I disagree.

The penalty should be 1 day in jail for a typical ticket, and more if the violation is more severe. If this is about safety, then jail time is a great deterrent. Fines just get put in the general fund to be used by corrupt politicians to funnel to cronies.



I lived in Chicago, and they were making $100 million a year from fines and penalties. But that was years ago, so I suspect that number is now double or triple.

Have you ever heard of New Rome, Ohio?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio

That town was 100% funded by traffic fines.

There are tons of speed trap towns all around the country, and also around the world, where their cops are just IRS agents with badges, and not heroes.




That's Texas.

And state government will be glad to enrich their cronies with the excess as well.

A day or more in jail for traffic fines is beyond idiotic.

[teddyearp]

The fifth amendment to the Constitution clearly states: ". . . nor be deprived of . . . property without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation."


I first read that over thirty years ago when I heard Reagan say that he was going to use 'civil forfeitures' in the 'war on drugs'. It was simply the part that is bolded that just blew me away. I thought to myself, "How can they just do that? It is not constitutional." Boy, how much I have learned since then.


And that is all I have to say.

[bobsell]

Originally Posted by madison999

A day or more in jail for traffic fines is beyond idiotic.

So more money for cronies is preferable to you?

Traffic tickets are not about public safety, it is about more money for cronies.

[bobsell]

Originally Posted by teddyearp

The fifth amendment to the Constitution clearly states: ". . . nor be deprived of . . . property without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation."


I first read that over thirty years ago when I heard Reagan say that he was going to use 'civil forfeitures' in the 'war on drugs'. It was simply the part that is bolded that just blew me away. I thought to myself, "How can they just do that? It is not constitutional." Boy, how much I have learned since then.


And that is all I have to say.

Civil forfeiture is good if one was actually CONVICTED of a crime. Drug dealer gets convicted? Yup, his lambo is seized. You have a seizing hearing, the conviction is in evidence, and it is an open and shut case.

But Civil forfeiture is totally evil if one is not convicted of a crime. There's no due process.

[teddyearp]

Well, just wrote Governor Ducey asking him to sign H.R. 2810 since it has passed the Senate third read on Wednesday.

[jnojr]

Originally Posted by bobsell

The penalty should be 1 day in jail for a typical ticket, and more if the violation is more severe. If this is about safety, then jail time is a great deterrent.

Everyone who runs a stop sign or drives a little too fast should spend a day in jail???

How much do you suppose that might cost?