A no to Saudi water drilling (Phoenix, Bullhead City: real estate, homes, buying)

[Voebe]

Why is it that they don't have to pay for water, but I do?



Water permits for Saudi Arabia-owned farm in Arizona revoked
The company does not pay for the water it uses.
https://apnews.com/article/arizona-w...7c6403d85bf70d

[Ponderosa]

You don't pay for the water you use. You pay the costs of production - the dams, pumps, wells, treatment plants, distribution facilities, energy etc. The Saudis, or any other AZ farm interest pays for all of that as well. The state does not own the groundwater. They can't charge an extraction, export, or depletion tax. That would be communism.

[AZ Desert Guy]

I find it more disturbing we knowingly allow foreign countries to pump large amounts of water from our arid states.

[jamies]

Originally Posted by AZ Desert Guy

I find it more disturbing we knowingly allow foreign countries to pump large amounts of water from our arid states.

Not only that. Google Golden Vertex, they are a Canadian corp that owns the Moss Mine near Bullhead City. They are strip mining roughly 3,000 oz of gold and 27,000 oz of silver each month from a giant strip mine on the edge of the Mt. Nutt Wilderness.

Basically with govt approval, they are stealing OUR gold and silver and taking it home to Canada as massive profits. Leaving us with a blighted landscape and pollution.

But that's our history, allowing forigners to plunder our lands. The same thing happened to the Indians.

The Chinese are buying our farm land. Then there's British Petroleum.

It is time to nationalize our public resources to benefit and enrich the American people, not foriegn billionaire companies.

PS - Afterthought. Explotiation of resources in foreign lands should be the exclusive right of Americans!

[Mike from back east]

Today's NY Times has a feature article on the over-pumping of our aquifers.

THIS LINK gets you in, past the paywall, so I'll only make a few excerpts here.

As with many articles in the Times, the graphics superbly illustrate the story.

America Is Using Up Its Groundwater Like There’s No Tomorrow

Overuse is draining and damaging aquifers nationwide, a New York Times data investigation revealed.

A wealth of underground water helped create America, its vast cities and bountiful farmland. Now, Americans are squandering that inheritance.

The Times analyzed water levels reported at tens of thousands of sites, revealing a crisis that threatens American prosperity.

Nearly half the sites have declined significantly over the past 40 years as more water has been pumped out than nature can replenish.

In the past decade, four of every 10 sites hit all-time lows. And last year was the worst yet.

I wrote a comment for the article, here it is:

We've been overpumping the aquifers for decades.

I'm bummed, like so much else in America, Congress does nothing until we reach the emergency stage. Horse gone, close barn door.

In the America of my dreams, where we pro-actively plan for OUR future, the BLM or Army Corps of Engineers would have made plans 30 or more years ago to actually manage this vital resource.

But, Congress can barely spell w-a-t-e-r until one of their vested interest / financial backers starts to go broke, at which time WE are all broke by their profligate wasting of water.

A terrible example of our 'anything goes' policy is here in bone dry Arizona. We let Saudi Arabia pump huge amounts of water to pour onto many thousands of acres of Alfalfa that they harvest and ship home to feed their dairy cows.

I used to work for the Army and was in the planning business. Our formal processes had us look ahead from a few years out to 50 years out, then plan and budget accordingly. If we can do that for Defense, we can do it for water . . . and forests . . . and . . . We probably are past the point where we should be picking winners and losers.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Today's NY Times has a feature article on the over-pumping of our aquifers.

THIS LINK gets you in, past the paywall, so I'll only make a few excerpts here.

As with many articles in the Times, the graphics superbly illustrate the story.




I wrote a comment for the article, here it is:t a




I used to work for the Army and was in the planning business. Our formal processes had us look ahead from a few years out to 50 years out, then plan and budget accordingly. If we can do that for Defense, we can do it for water . . . and forests . . . and . . . We probably are past the point where we should be picking winners and losers.

Did you notice in the graphic that many aquifers in the Phoenix area have seen rising water levels, not declining. This is due in large part to the CAP and its mandate that central Arizona move to renewable water resources and away from groundwater. Planning is/was taking place. Of course, now we see potential shortages of CAP water that could result in increased pumping.

I'm not as bothered as most, apparently, by Saudi's buying farmland and irrigating crops for their use. I have a hard time seeing how that is much different from exporting agricultural products around the globe, all of which consume large amounts of water in growth and production. What I am troubled by though is the use of the water to produce animal feed. Saudi Arabia does not allow this (hence they do it here) and Arizona should restrict it at a minimum.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by AZ Desert Guy

I find it more disturbing we knowingly allow foreign countries to pump large amounts of water from our arid states.

AZ has let corporations, Real Estate Investment Trusts, and other entities get away with over-pumping aquifers for decades. The state legislature needs to tighten up controls on that, and decide if giving drilling permits to outside investment schemes is something that's in their state citizens' best interests,if they haven't addressed that already. People have bought homes in new housing developments, only to find their taps run dry due to the REIT-owned luxury development nearby sinking a deeper well for the golf course and community it built, that robbed the neighboring ex-urb of its water.

If AZ isn't careful, these predatory investment schemes from out-of-state will sew up the remaining groundwater not already under established claim, and will buy up as many of the pre-existing water rights they possibly can.

[stephenMM]

You do realize that water weighs 8 lbs a gallon, right? What are they going to do, FedEx it in parcels to Saudi Arabia? Maybe they could work out a quid pro quo. We send them a gallon of water, they send us some sand?

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by stephenMM

You do realize that water weighs 8 lbs a gallon, right? What are they going to do, FedEx it in parcels to Saudi Arabia? Maybe they could work out a quid pro quo. We send them a gallon of water, they send us some sand?

Keep up. They don't export the water. They grow crops here in Arizona using that water and then ship the crops to Saudi Arabia. The crop grown is primarily alfalfa. They won't grow alfalfa in their own country because it uses lots of water for little benefit and their own laws prohibit it.

[Mking17]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

AZ has let corporations, Real Estate Investment Trusts, and other entities get away with over-pumping aquifers for decades. The state legislature needs to tighten up controls on that, and decide if giving drilling permits to outside investment schemes is something that's in their state citizens' best interests,if they haven't addressed that already. People have bought homes in new housing developments, only to find their taps run dry due to the REIT-owned luxury development nearby sinking a deeper well for the golf course and community it built, that robbed the neighboring ex-urb of its water.

If AZ isn't careful, these predatory investment schemes from out-of-state will sew up the remaining groundwater not already under established claim, and will buy up as many of the pre-existing water rights they possibly can.

Arizona is so much of a free market state it is not funny. They will allow their citizens to get screwed to be sacrificed to the alter of free enterprise. When asked, the politicians will say "Well it lowers taxes..." We go along with it. We need to stop buying these lies.