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the disparity between the wealthy and the poor is getting wider and wider by design of a capitalistic/market economy. it's okay to criticize, but at least be consistent. I was pointing this out as the other person was saying something about xi going after the rich "killing big profitable companies" and yet at the same time complaining about the gap between the rich and the poor.
you can't have both ways. if you want to keep the gap between the rich and the poor under control, the rich must be held in check.
The most equal societies in the world were places like Sweden in the 70s with a GINI around 0.2. Communist nations are far more unequal as the politically connected elite becomes rich relative to the rest of society, especially the people who live far away from capital cities.
In the USSR, the elite in Moscow was far richer than the average people living outside Moscow. In North Korea, the elite in Pyongyang is much richer than the average person and when Xian tried to centrally distribute food due to the lockdown, the elite neighborhood got way more food.
Communism leads to feudalism, that is what it has such a bad reputation. If you want a very equal society, then you need to do what Sweden did in the 70s, not what North Korea is doing today. So yes, we can have it both ways, because "killing big profitable companies" does not lead to low-income inequality.
btw, if what you said is true, norway must be a paradise then. you're telling me that a common worker family can purchase two properties with a year of their wage? the properties price is only half of the annual wage? are you sure you have it correct?
here in the US, the properties prices are at least 5 to 10 times annual wages depends on where you live.
Come on, I said the mortgage was 10,000. You should be able to conclude yourself that it is per sqm.
Hence, a 100 sqm apartment is 30,000 * 100 / 70,0000 = 3.5 times their household income. While in China the 100 sqm apartment is 10,000 * 100 / 6,000 = 14 times their household income.
And this is in small cities, in bigger cities both numbers are higher, which makes the Chinese property prices insufferable.
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Originally Posted by maomao
to best honest, i don't think you can compare capitalistic societies of the west to the socialistic one in china.
also there are cultural differences, let me point this out to you.
in china, most son lives with their parents, especially if they are only child.
so your "common worker family" has 3+ generations. The grand parents are retired, and 99 %of them already owned their house as part of their compensation package from the government.
the parents then have a choice of going to a big city to work, while their child stay home with the grand parents. also, only the elite/super rich/big city folks cares about school disctricts housing. every one has the same chance to get into college as the entrance exam is standardize no matter what school you're from. with the new policy of shutting down the pay for tutoring, the rich no longer has the advantage over the poor.
a "family" in the west is not the same as a "family" in chinese society. The woman joins the husband's family when they are married.
Yes, many people owned a home, but unlike in the west those homes were totally inadequate for their grandkids to live in. Durng the 70s, it was not uncommon for a whole family to share a 20 sqm apartment in the city. And it was not much better in the villages.
They also got a lot of kids at that time, so the kids of that generation had to leave their homes and find their own place. Some of them were successful and owned multiple apartments, other not so much and still own 1 small apartment. Their parents eventually died, but since they had many kids and 1 small apartment then there was not much to hand down.
The next generation of kids are the ones in need of buying property today. Unless the parent's property is huge, the expectation is that the guy buys a place to live. But since property prices are crazy high, then they have to go into huge levels of debt to get a small place.
And of course school zone matter for the non-elite. Saying something like that just shows that you know very little about China. Everyone that has possibility to send their kids to a better school zone, cares.
Come on, I said the mortgage was 10,000. You should be able to conclude yourself that it is per sqm.
Hence, a 100 sqm apartment is 30,000 * 100 / 70,0000 = 3.5 times their household income. While in China the 100 sqm apartment is 10,000 * 100 / 6,000 = 14 times their household income.
And this is in small cities, in bigger cities both numbers are higher, which makes the Chinese property prices insufferable.
Yes, many people owned a home, but unlike in the west those homes were totally inadequate for their grandkids to live in. Durng the 70s, it was not uncommon for a whole family to share a 20 sqm apartment in the city. And it was not much better in the villages.
They also got a lot of kids at that time, so the kids of that generation had to leave their homes and find their own place. Some of them were successful and owned multiple apartments, other not so much and still own 1 small apartment. Their parents eventually died, but since they had many kids and 1 small apartment then there was not much to hand down.
The next generation of kids are the ones in need of buying property today. Unless the parent's property is huge, the expectation is that the guy buys a place to live. But since property prices are crazy high, then they have to go into huge levels of debt to get a small place.
And of course school zone matter for the non-elite. Saying something like that just shows that you know very little about China. Everyone that has possibility to send their kids to a better school zone, cares.
that's the problem that I have with your argument here. the next generation of kids (mostly only childs), do not have the "need" to buy properties. In the traditional chinese society, the son would live with their parents and inherit the property.
so a marry couple (both only child), would inherit 2 properties from their parents. so for the couple to buy a new property is a luxury, not a need.
You see, if that marry couple has what it takes, they could afford to buy a new house in the big city, but it's not a need, because they know in their hearts that they would have a property from their parents as their base.
this is contrary to western thoughts, but that's how chinese thinks. just imagine yourself being a only child and your parents would not do reverse mortgage (i don't think there is such a thing in china) because they would want their child to have a better life than them.
that's the problem that I have with your argument here. the next generation of kids (mostly only childs), do not have the "need" to buy properties. In the traditional chinese society, the son would live with their parents and inherit the property..
If the guy don't get a place and live in his parents 70 sqm apartment, then no girls want to marry him.
And he is not going to inherit their parents property before they die, so in the meantime he need a place, or he will remain single.
China is not the socialist utopia that you are Imagining. China is just as consumerist as the USA, and buying things to show off is very common in Chinese society. If you actually lived in China, you would have known.
If the guy don't get a place and live in his parents 70 sqm apartment, then no girls want to marry him.
And he is not going to inherit their parents property before they die, so in the meantime he need a place, or he will remain single.
China is not the socialist utopia that you are Imagining. China is just as consumerist as the USA, and buying things to show off is very common in Chinese society. If you actually lived in China, you would have known.
no one says it's a utopia, but it's the balance. just think about it, anyone, including foreigners, can purchase properties at will in the US, canada, and most of the western worlds, that drives the prices up. can you do the same in china?
if the guy doesn't get a place and live in his parents 70sqm apartment, who's fault is it? oh it's the government. he was given equal chance to go to school and work. of course china is no utopia where everyone gets to live in big houses in the biggest cities. you live where you can afford.
if you are complaining about the "high property price" in china (only valid in hong kong really), just imagine the prices if those restrictive policies don't exist and real estate corporations are not kept in check
no one says it's a utopia, but it's the balance. just think about it, anyone, including foreigners, can purchase properties at will in the US, canada, and most of the western worlds, that drives the prices up. can you do the same in china?
Lol, there is no foreign demand to buy property in China in the first place. As China has capital controls, rich people are trying to get their money out, and if they can't then they invest their money into an asset like housing. And similar housing restrictions has been implemented in some western countries like New Zealand, and it did not lead to cheaper housing prices.
But do you know what would have a significant effect on cooling housing prices? Yes, that is right, property taxes would have reduced property prices. Lots of countries have them, Canada, the USA, New Zealand, Australia, etc. China has also talked about implementing it for years. But in practice, it is still zero in most of China. In the few cities that are included in the pilot project, it is still very low and limited to certain properties. China also has very low service costs for apartments as they skip on maintenance.
That means the cost of holding an apartment is very low in China and lot of people use it as an investment. Any attempt by Xi to fix the problem has been avoiding the core issue, as he does not dare to implement property taxes or force people to spend more money maintaining their homes.
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if the guy doesn't get a place and live in his parents 70sqm apartment, who's fault is it? oh it's the government. he was given equal chance to go to school and work. of course china is no utopia where everyone gets to live in big houses in the biggest cities. you live where you can afford.
if you are complaining about the "high property price" in china (only valid in hong kong really), just imagine the prices if those restrictive policies don't exist and real estate corporations are not kept in check
It's not about fault. The point is that property prices are very high in Chinese cities, forcing him to max out legal and illegal borrowing and borrow from family and friends just to get a small apartment.
And your argument that property prices is only a problem in Hong Kong is just
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