Vinings incorporate? (Atlanta, Sandy Springs, Marietta: apartments, condos, how much)

[netdragon]

I heard rumors that some homeowners at Vinings are looking to incorporate. I believe that'd be a really bad move because Vinings doesn't have a large commercial tax base and to provide basic services, the mill rate would need to be raised significantly.

I think it's a smarter idea to merge with Smyrna in exchange for Smyrna changing its name to Vinings, giving Vinings village status as "Old Vinings" with some sovereignty, and for building Vinings a new elementary school, parks, and other things to raise land value.

Basically, Vinings people would have the same services for less money, and still be able to maintain or possibly increase their land value but still have more regional control. In the short run, Smyrna might take a small financial hit, but in the long-run Smyrna will be able to absorb Vinings without having to add too many new troopers, fire, and other services and better take advantage of Vinings land value than Vinings would if it were to incorporate.

[hairmetal4ever]

I doubt a city the size of Smyrna would agree to a name change!

[nrgpill]

I can't see this happening. I think Vinings wants to clearly define its borders and take the risk of a slight tax increase, as well as going after silly developers naming projects with "Vinings" in it.

[xxman777]

Unless Vinings copyrighted their name they still wouldn't be able to go after developers naming their projects Vinings. There was an AJC article about it last week and it indicated the reason for incorporating was to control development in and surrounding the village and to control how their tax dollars were being spent (similar to Sandy Springs, Milton, John's Creek, South Fulton, Dunwoody, etc.)

I also have to disagree that the city doesn't have a very large tax base. Of course we don't know exactly how many residents the new city would have (this is going to be based on where the city boundary is ultimately drawn) but this site lists the pop at 9,677. Of course we also don't know what business will be in the city but we can take a guess. The Village will be part of the city, and the office buildings in the overlook will also most likely be in the city. The retail and office along Cumberland Pkwy near Paces Ferry will also probably be incorporated. Vinings also has the option of taking the entire Cumberland area since all of it is still unincorporated. Since part of the reason Vinings wants to incorporate is to control areas like Cumberland I think it is realistic that they will move forward with this. I don't know exactly how much in taxes they would get out of all those areas but it would take a guess that it would be enough to support a city of 10,000.

[nrgpill]

Vinings already has a decent tax base considering the number of estimated residents. I am also guessing that the incorporation effort will push for a tight definition of the supposed area, between the river and I-285.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by xxman777

The retail and office along Cumberland Pkwy near Paces Ferry will also probably be incorporated. Vinings also has the option of taking the entire Cumberland area since all of it is still unincorporated.

I don't believe that Vinings will be able to take the Cumberland/Galleria area. Both Smyrna and Marietta have already tried decades ago, and the business owners in that area won't like the liability that incorporating with a mostly residential area will create. Do you think that business owners in Cumberland and Galleria would want to pay for a Vinings elementary school? What can Vinings provide that they don't already have? They get utilities from Cobb and they'd probably be taxed more heavily if they went along with it. If Vinings incorporates, it'll have a hard time getting any commercial property but perhaps small shops and maybe maybe the Overlook.

It'll be easy for Smyrna and Marietta governments (and Cobb government too) to use FUD, and better incentives to lure the businesses away from incorporating with Vinings, if they had to make a choice, which they don't considering their current situation is a pretty good one.

[wsxyz]

There have been a few meetings of the Vinings Homeowner Assn (which has been the main advocate of incorporation) about the topic. The idea is currently stalled because there was no clear majority in favor of incorporation in the association. The people in favor seemed to me mostly older white residents who dislike the recent development in the area.

Personally I don't see how incorporation can ever succeed. The goal would be to control development. However, the advocates of incorporation want nothing whatsoever to do with the large number of apartment dwellers in the area - so the incorporated area would have to be limited to the village plus adjacent single-family residential areas stretching along woodland brook to the railroad tracks. This area is not threatened with medium/high-density development anyway - so what's the point?

If the city were to include the apartments and condos in the area, then the apartment dwellers would be able to control city politics - which is certainly NOT what the city advocates want.

One thing that Vinings really could use, however, is some traffic control in the village. Paces Ferry/Paces Mill is far too congested recently and is being used as a through-route by people who should be using Cumberland Pkwy instead.

Here's a crazy idea that would solve the problem: Use a City-of-London-style fee mechanism to charge a toll for people who are just driving through. Cameras on Paces Ferry (just after the intersection with Cumberland Pkwy), Paces Mill (just after the intersection with Cobb Pkwy), Paces Ferry (at the river) and Woodland Brook (at the railroad tracks) would record the license plates of all cars coming and going on these roads. If a particular car enters the controlled area on one road, and leaves on another road within 20 minutes, a $2 charge is billed to the registered owner of that car, as determined by the license plate. People who live in the controlled area could be excepted and people who enter for purposes lasting longer than 20 minutes (business, shopping) would not be charged - only drive-throughs would be affected.

[nrgpill]

If something like this was implemented in Sandy Springs we'd have an all-out war with Cobb county. BTW, thanks for the update on Vinnings' incorporation effort.

Originally Posted by wsxyz

Here's a crazy idea that would solve the problem: Use a City-of-London-style fee mechanism to charge a toll for people who are just driving through. Cameras on Paces Ferry (just after the intersection with Cumberland Pkwy), Paces Mill (just after the intersection with Cobb Pkwy), Paces Ferry (at the river) and Woodland Brook (at the railroad tracks) would record the license plates of all cars coming and going on these roads. If a particular car enters the controlled area on one road, and leaves on another road within 20 minutes, a $2 charge is billed to the registered owner of that car, as determined by the license plate. People who live in the controlled area could be excepted and people who enter for purposes lasting longer than 20 minutes (business, shopping) would not be charged - only drive-throughs would be affected.

[GF72]

haha yeah imagine Sandy Springs trying to charge the commuters from East Cobb trying to pass through the city to get to Perimeter Center.


As for Vinings, honestly I don't see any logical reason for any city in Cobb County to incorporate. Cobb County does a far better job than Fulton of taking care of it's unincorporated areas, in fact 70% of Cobb is unincorporated and no one's ever had a problem with the county. Otherwise East Cobb would have incorporated long ago... In fact the Chattahoochee Plantation district of East Cobb actually was incorporated as a city around 1960 or so to make sure Atlanta can't annex into Cobb County, but they still let Cobb County do everything for them and in the 1990's they unincorporated because the annexation threat was gone (Sandy Springs actually tried to be annexed by Chattahoochee Plantation at one point). But completely unlike Sandy Springs, East Cobb and also Vinings as a matter of fact have a good healthy relationship with the county and the only possible reason for Vinings to incorporate would be to have bragging rights about their prosperous little city. Which just seems pointless.

As for annexing Smyrna or Cumberland... both of those areas are way too large (Smyrna 60,000+ population, Cumberland 100,000+ population) and have their own identity that has nothing to do with Vinings.

Also, while Cumberland certainly has the tax base to incorporate (with 100,000 residents, tons of retail, a mall, and scores of office towers), Vinings is a little town of around 10,000 to 15,000... there's what, a little village, a bunch of apartments and houses, and possibly the overlook office complex. What's the point of incorporating that? It's just another pointless layer of bureaucracy... the counties in GA are already small enough to where they are basically the equivalent of a city in any other state.

I think what Vinings really wants is their unique identity preserved... just put some signs saying welcome to Vinings, some Vinings street sign toppers on the street signs, and make sure everyone's address says Vinings instead of Atlanta and most people will probably be happy. As for the old-school Vinings residents worried about development... honestly the forested single-family homes they live in are in absolutely no threat from anyone... I know they don't like the apartment dwellers, but they can't do anything about that since they are outnumbered by them...

[Yeorwned]

Sminings will live forever more.