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I'm not so sure the Z06 engine has more potential than the 5.0 in the Mustang. The Z06 engine is very mature and in many ways limited by the 2 valve pushrod design.
The 5.0 is very impressive right out of the gate - already Ford added 30 Hp to the Mustang GT package.
The z06 has a superior chassis - but Ford has done one hell of a job with the basic suspension of the Mustang.
The fact the GM LSx's are using push rods and 2 valves per cylinder has yet to hold them back. There are LS7's that make over 750 horsepower N/A and others that produce over 1,200 horsepower with forced induction. If anything the GM LSx's have long been considered far superior to virtually anything Ford has put out in the last 15 years in terms of total performance potential.
This current 5.0 is just a continuation of the same "mod' motor line that included the various 4.6 and 5.4 models. All of those previous generation "mod' motors were severely limited in their ability to gain power with anything but a power adder. The GM LSx's have always had the ability to build tremendous power without needing a blower or turbo to do it.
So, yes, I fully believe that a Z06 w/ a LS7 has far more potential than this 5.0 Mustang (it also means that the LS3 is the Camaro has far more potential as well). It doesn't take anything away from this Mustang at all and I am very glad to see Ford put a respectable engine in the Mustang again. However, it is very telling to me that they gained the 30 horsepower with different heads, cams and intake plenum as well as revised internals to handle the 7,500 RPM redline. These changes also resulted in losing torque. I think this should show the somewhat limited ability to add power to the Ford "mod" motors outside of forced induction which adds complexity and weight. As it is getting 30 horsepower out of a GM LSx is as easy as a more aggressive computer tune. A swap to a slightly more aggressive cam alone can often add 50+ horsepower to a LS3 or LS7.
Good luck trying to find the Mustang for 40K.
If production is at all limited, you can expect your friendly Ford dealer to extract an extra 5 to 10K in "market adjustment".
Good luck trying to find the Mustang for 40K.
If production is at all limited, you can expect your friendly Ford dealer to extract an extra 5 to 10K in "market adjustment".
Word, I still think the better buy is the base GT with the Brembo package. A few choice suspension, performance mods and tires along with a decent tune should put even a regular Mustang in the same territory.
With that said, I really like what Ford did with this car. I think they did the Boss name justice by going well beyond a sticker package like the old "Bullitt" models. It's a car I would like to own, but the other options at that price or even cheaper where you can get equal or better performance stock or through modding, makes it not such a great value. Such is the problem with factory tuner/race cars. They are unique and generally well done, but their performance is easily attainable through other means. Their value lies solely in their collectability/uniqueness.
The fact the GM LSx's are using push rods and 2 valves per cylinder has yet to hold them back. There are LS7's that make over 750 horsepower N/A and others that produce over 1,200 horsepower with forced induction. If anything the GM LSx's have long been considered far superior to virtually anything Ford has put out in the last 15 years in terms of total performance potential.
This current 5.0 is just a continuation of the same "mod' motor line that included the various 4.6 and 5.4 models. All of those previous generation "mod' motors were severely limited in their ability to gain power with anything but a power adder. The GM LSx's have always had the ability to build tremendous power without needing a blower or turbo to do it.
So, yes, I fully believe that a Z06 w/ a LS7 has far more potential than this 5.0 Mustang (it also means that the LS3 is the Camaro has far more potential as well). It doesn't take anything away from this Mustang at all and I am very glad to see Ford put a respectable engine in the Mustang again. However, it is very telling to me that they gained the 30 horsepower with different heads, cams and intake plenum as well as revised internals to handle the 7,500 RPM redline. These changes also resulted in losing torque. I think this should show the somewhat limited ability to add power to the Ford "mod" motors outside of forced induction which adds complexity and weight. As it is getting 30 horsepower out of a GM LSx is as easy as a more aggressive computer tune. A swap to a slightly more aggressive cam alone can often add 50+ horsepower to a LS3 or LS7.
Sometimes being "old school" has it's benefits.
Sure there are 700 hp NA LSx engines. But not from the factory and they don't meet smog standards nor CAFE standards.
GM used a supercharger and even more displacement for the ZR1.
I am not concerned with what tuners and hot rodders can do to their engines. They don't care about what a "retail" vehicle has to be.
I think the near future demands high fuel efficiency, clean emissions, and good power. I think for most applications, a multi-valve OHC engine will be more versatile and will make it easier for manufacturers to meet market requirements.
Sure there are 700 hp NA LSx engines. But not from the factory and they don't meet smog standards nor CAFE standards.
GM used a supercharger and even more displacement for the ZR1.
I am not concerned with what tuners and hot rodders can do to their engines. They don't care about what a "retail" vehicle has to be.
I think the near future demands high fuel efficiency, clean emissions, and good power. I think for most applications, a multi-valve OHC engine will be more versatile and will make it easier for manufacturers to meet market requirements.
no they used a LS9 6.2 supercharged V-8 in the ZR-1 and a N/A LS7 7.0 liter V-8 in the Z06. So the Z06 has the bigger displacement motor.
the LS7 block was not used due to the higher cylinder pressures created by the supercharger requiring the thicker cylinder walls of the LS3.
on the other hand GM has had success with DOHC 4-valve motors in the orginal corvette ZR-1 in the 90's and the cadillac northstar motors are also DOHC V8's. It would be easy for GM to put one in their lower end muslce cars but then again they have 50 years of design in the old OHV 2-valve motors.
Sure there are 700 hp NA LSx engines. But not from the factory and they don't meet smog standards nor CAFE standards.
GM used a supercharger and even more displacement for the ZR1.
I am not concerned with what tuners and hot rodders can do to their engines. They don't care about what a "retail" vehicle has to be.
I think the near future demands high fuel efficiency, clean emissions, and good power. I think for most applications, a multi-valve OHC engine will be more versatile and will make it easier for manufacturers to meet market requirements.
I was mainly speaking from a "tuner" mentality. However, GM, has found ways to integrate virtually all of the technology that allows the OHC engines to achieve their efficiency. Things like variable valve timing, variable intake runners and cylinder deactivation are going to be integrated into the next generation small block V8 from the beginning. At the end of the day there is nothing high tech or low tech between the two technologies used to move the valves. The difference is that OHC architecture allows you to more easily integrate the other technologies.
As it stands now, depending on the gearing option the new Mustang either ties the Camaro SS's MPG or betters it by 2 highway. Not too impressive given the lower weight of the Stang. The GM engines have always been harder to make meet emissions do to the bore size (Ford uses a small bore, long stroke design). However, they are still smog compliant and have a long history of returning excellent MPG's for their size. It used to be a running joke that LS1 Camaro's were not only way faster than their 4.6L Mustang couterparts, but they got better MPG's to boot.
I got 40 hp out of a tune in my GT. Being a lifelong GM guy I can surely say that owning both has the Ford engines in a whole nother class. Multi valve, DOHC and 7500 redline from a engine much smaller then the cheap to build and unsophisticated pushrod LSX motors are not even a contest.. Sorry to say.. Take it from a guy who has owned both..
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT
The fact the GM LSx's are using push rods and 2 valves per cylinder has yet to hold them back. There are LS7's that make over 750 horsepower N/A and others that produce over 1,200 horsepower with forced induction. If anything the GM LSx's have long been considered far superior to virtually anything Ford has put out in the last 15 years in terms of total performance potential.
This current 5.0 is just a continuation of the same "mod' motor line that included the various 4.6 and 5.4 models. All of those previous generation "mod' motors were severely limited in their ability to gain power with anything but a power adder. The GM LSx's have always had the ability to build tremendous power without needing a blower or turbo to do it.
So, yes, I fully believe that a Z06 w/ a LS7 has far more potential than this 5.0 Mustang (it also means that the LS3 is the Camaro has far more potential as well). It doesn't take anything away from this Mustang at all and I am very glad to see Ford put a respectable engine in the Mustang again. However, it is very telling to me that they gained the 30 horsepower with different heads, cams and intake plenum as well as revised internals to handle the 7,500 RPM redline. These changes also resulted in losing torque. I think this should show the somewhat limited ability to add power to the Ford "mod" motors outside of forced induction which adds complexity and weight. As it is getting 30 horsepower out of a GM LSx is as easy as a more aggressive computer tune. A swap to a slightly more aggressive cam alone can often add 50+ horsepower to a LS3 or LS7.
maybe so with the old 4.6 2 valve motors but its not true with the 3 and 4 valve 4.6's. BTW- my Mustang GT gets 30 mpg on the highway if I set the criuise to 65 and leave off the ac..
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT
I was mainly speaking from a "tuner" mentality. However, GM, has found ways to integrate virtually all of the technology that allows the OHC engines to achieve their efficiency. Things like variable valve timing, variable intake runners and cylinder deactivation are going to be integrated into the next generation small block V8 from the beginning. At the end of the day there is nothing high tech or low tech between the two technologies used to move the valves. The difference is that OHC architecture allows you to more easily integrate the other technologies.
As it stands now, depending on the gearing option the new Mustang either ties the Camaro SS's MPG or betters it by 2 highway. Not too impressive given the lower weight of the Stang. The GM engines have always been harder to make meet emissions do to the bore size (Ford uses a small bore, long stroke design). However, they are still smog compliant and have a long history of returning excellent MPG's for their size. It used to be a running joke that LS1 Camaro's were not only way faster than their 4.6L Mustang couterparts, but they got better MPG's to boot.
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