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OK. I'm sick of this. Anytime somebody is a certain race, they automatically group that person with the same race. Every white forward in the NBA since 1990 is the next Larry Bird. Since Lin is Asian, and there ARE NO OTHER Asian NBA players, he's just compared to the next closest skin shade. His game is NOTHING like Nash or Stockton. And this comparison was made by the best point guard of all time. Shame...
Another thing that tends to happen is current players are compared to past players based on size. I remember when D. Rose was being drafted, they compared him to J Kidd. No similarities whatsoever except for size.
So, those who have been basketball fans for years ... let's come up with some better ones based on actual BASKETBALL PLAYING STYLE. Who's with me?
So ... first one. Derrick Rose and Allen Iverson.
I know Iverson is much smaller, but their games are very similar. Watch the highlights. Both are scoring points, have a killer crossover, ridiculous quickness, and off the charts athleticism. Both rely on that athleticism to get to the rim to score against much bigger players with insane twisting body motions. Both are mediocre shooters, though they both like to shoot (Iverson a bit more). Both have passable point skills but are not pure points.
Second category: Slashers (Cut and dish). They get the ball at the three point line, frequently on the run, can knock down the three enough that you have to bite to a fake and put their head down and go strong towards the hoop. They can stop on a dime and get you with the midrange, or can fly over you for the dunk/layup if the lanes are open. If neither of these two are possible, they pass the ball out.
People like the young Kobe, Tayshaun, Luol Deng, Hamilton at times.
OK. I'm sick of this. Anytime somebody is a certain race, they automatically group that person with the same race. Every white forward in the NBA since 1990 is the next Larry Bird. Since Lin is Asian, and there ARE NO OTHER Asian NBA players, he's just compared to the next closest skin shade. His game is NOTHING like Nash or Stockton. And this comparison was made by the best point guard of all time. Shame...
Another thing that tends to happen is current players are compared to past players based on size. I remember when D. Rose was being drafted, they compared him to J Kidd. No similarities whatsoever except for size.
So, those who have been basketball fans for years ... let's come up with some better ones based on actual BASKETBALL PLAYING STYLE. Who's with me?
So ... first one. Derrick Rose and Allen Iverson.
I know Iverson is much smaller, but their games are very similar. Watch the highlights. Both are scoring points, have a killer crossover, ridiculous quickness, and off the charts athleticism. Both rely on that athleticism to get to the rim to score against much bigger players with insane twisting body motions. Both are mediocre shooters, though they both like to shoot (Iverson a bit more). Both have passable point skills but are not pure points.
What do you think?
Any others?
Why don't you cite their shooting percentages if you want to make claims about that? Assists? etc?
-The guys in the 80's and 90's had flat out better fundamentals. I don't think this is argued. Remember Patrick Ewing shooting a 15, 16 foot jump shot? What center can do that now?
The problem is, in 1991 or 93, you just accepted that a center could do this. Ewing, Robinson, Olajuwon were much better fundamentally than any center now (Bynum??).
A more interesting comparison might be a guy like Clyde Drexler.
-Stockton is the all time leader in steals. He's much craftier than people give him credit for. I don't know who has his type of defensive anticipation, ability to read passing lanes, etc.
Some of these guys were pretty unassuming.....it makes modern comparisons difficult. I.e. Alex English or Mark Price.
I use to be a fan of Ricky Pierce, I don't think there's anyone like him in the league. Everyone is into dunks and slashing now.
-The guys in the 80's and 90's had flat out better fundamentals. I don't think this is argued. Remember Patrick Ewing shooting a 15, 16 foot jump shot? What center can do that now?
The problem is, in 1991 or 93, you just accepted that a center could do this. Ewing, Robinson, Olajuwon were much better fundamentally than any center now (Bynum??).
A more interesting comparison might be a guy like Clyde Drexler.
-Stockton is the all time leader in steals. He's much craftier than people give him credit for. I don't know who has his type of defensive anticipation, ability to read passing lanes, etc.
Some of these guys were pretty unassuming.....it makes modern comparisons difficult. I.e. Alex English or Mark Price.
I use to be a fan of Ricky Pierce, I don't think there's anyone like him in the league. Everyone is into dunks and slashing now.
Iverson is so unique that I really don't know we can compare him to anybody.
Rose is quite a bit bigger and his last full season he shot 45% from the field and 33% from 3-pt range.
In fairness though, Iverson did play in a more physical era where it was easier to play up more tightly on guys with insane speed like those two have.
I like comparing luol deng to scottie pippen personally. Don't get me wrong, deng isn't on that level but their styles are VERY similar.
What about CP3 - Gary Payton? Both are very well rounded and can do everything well and are excellent defenders.
What about CP3 - Gary Payton? Both are very well rounded and can do everything well and are excellent defenders.
Payton for me. CP3 may be the slightly better playmaker in terms of setting up teammates, I think Payton is the more prolific scorer( he could have played shooting guard, really), and certainly the better defender. Paul's size is a liability on defense, it's not lack of effort on his end and he does about as well as someone of his dimensions can. Payton, though, is in an entire different class as a defender. You throw his name into the mix with Jordan,Pippen, Rodman, Joe Dumars, when you start talking all-time great perimeter defenders.
As for the Iverson-Rose comparison, work-ethic wise and chemistry wise Rose will certainly fit into your team better. On an individual talent level, Iverson was the more prolific scorer but also less efficient and was pretty much a chucker. Part of that was the lack of offensive options on his teams, but Iverson's style wasn't really conducive to someone else thriving offensively. Actually, given his infamously poor work ethic and reckless style, he was remarkably durable but that's why he crashed at 34, once his blinding speed left him he didn't have the discipline and ethic to change his game as he aged and that's why he's no longer in the league.
Iverson is so unique that I really don't know we can compare him to anybody.
Rose is quite a bit bigger and his last full season he shot 45% from the field and 33% from 3-pt range.
Agreed, not only that, but Rose passes the ball a little bit more. They both are score-first guards, but Rose does a better job getting others involved (even though it could be better)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
In fairness though, Iverson did play in a more physical era where it was easier to play up more tightly on guys with insane speed like those two have.
Good point. It also helps that Rose is very strong too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
I like comparing luol deng to scottie pippen personally. Don't get me wrong, deng isn't on that level but their styles are VERY similar.
Not a chance. Scottie was a better playmaker. He was really one of the few point forwards out there. Deng doesn't have that ability to run an offense like Scottie. He is someone that has developed his slashing game more but he doesn't have the PG skills to compare to Scottie. Scottie is a hard one to follow, but I think Grant Hill in his prime was a close comparison to Scottie. To me Deng is more like Sean Elliott from the Spurs back in the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
What about CP3 - Gary Payton? Both are very well rounded and can do everything well and are excellent defenders.
Not a chance. Chris Paul is not a great defender. He's slightly above average. He is limited because of his size and also because he's not extremely athletic, believe it or not. Chris Paul, to me, is a flashier version of John Stockton. Unlike other guards in the league now, he is a really good shooter, which made John Stockton dangerous. Paul is also very intelligent, breaks the defense down well and knows when to be a scorer and when to set his teammates up.
It's hard to say who is close to Payton. I've heard people say that John Wall could be like him some day, but he has to become a better defender and develop a consistent jumper. I heard Payton wasn't a great shooter when he first came in the league too so maybe there are some parallels there.
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