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Jokic also has experience playing team ball in Europe whereas NBA players and those leading up to it seem to be more interested in me me me, dunking, and jacking up threes than they are in improving their fundamentals and team ball play.
It's funny this narrative persists despite the facts having completely changed over the last decade or so.
Team assists are higher than ever after adjusting for pace. Teams this past season averaged 25.3 assists per game, which is on par with the halycon Bird-Magic days even though the average team today has about 3 fewer possessions.
I'm not sure how you reconcile the argument your argument that today's NBA is about "me, me, me" when team assists are higher than ever and teams literally build strategies using analytic models to get the highest percentage shots possible.
Do you see the scars all over his arms, hands, body? He gets the crap beat out of him every game and is still one of the best rebound guys (especially contested defensive rebounds) in the league.
It’s relative to his height/style/position (which, by the way, doesn’t have anything to do with his ‘cheap shots’); a scrape or reddened area on his arm does not translate to cheap or flagrant fouls committed by other players. That said, I couldn’t care less; if you like the guy that much (and want to defend him), go for it. I’m not a fan of the Nuggets anyway.
Bottom line, the Nuggets are the first to win the Championship without having to face a top-three seeded team in the playoffs in order to do so. I think that speaks to my comment re: ‘lame’ in terms of the Finals, in and of itself.
It’s relative to his height/style/position (which, by the way, doesn’t have anything to do with his ‘cheap shots’); a scrape or reddened area on his arm does not translate to cheap or flagrant fouls committed by other players. That said, I couldn’t care less; if you like the guy that much (and want to defend him), go for it. I’m not a fan of the Nuggets anyway.
Bottom line, the Nuggets are the first to win the Championship without having to face a top-three seeded team in the playoffs in order to do so. I think that speaks to my comment re: ‘lame’ in terms of the Finals, in and of itself.
I think your take is lazy. The guy led the league in True Shooting % averaging 24.5 points a game and you want to claim he has no real form on his jumper, and that all of those contested floaters that bounce in are just luck. Right, like an uncoordinated guy with a methodical/mechanical game can hit overhead, one-leg, step back three pointers (aka, the "Bird bomb" with added degree of difficulty) with a hand in his face. He sure isn't racking up points leaping over people and running around them.
He and the Suns owner joked about the "incident."
It was a playoffs were seeding didn't matter except in one case, the Nuggets. They went nearly wire to wire as the top team in the West. Their biggest challenges were expected to be Suns/Lakers/Warriors. They beat the two of them they had to play, and neither series was that competitive. It's isn't the Nuggets fault the Suns and Lakers didn't take the regular season seriously enough to have #2 or #3 seed by their name. I have to think Boston had the talent on the roster to win the East, and probably it all, but first year head coach didn't get it done. Philly was a paper contender again, maybe next year.
I think your take is lazy. The guy led the league in True Shooting % averaging 24.5 points a game and you want to claim he has no real form on his jumper, and that all of those contested floaters that bounce in are just luck. Right, like an uncoordinated guy with a methodical/mechanical game can hit overhead, one-leg, step back three pointers (aka, the "Bird bomb" with added degree of difficulty) with a hand in his face. He sure isn't racking up points leaping over people and running around them.
He and the Suns owner joked about the "incident."
It was a playoffs were seeding didn't matter except in one case, the Nuggets. They went nearly wire to wire as the top team in the West. Their biggest challenges were expected to be Suns/Lakers/Warriors. They beat the two of them they had to play, and neither series was that competitive. It's isn't the Nuggets fault the Suns and Lakers didn't take the regular season seriously enough to have #2 or #3 seed by their name. I have to think Boston had the talent on the roster to win the East, and probably it all, but first year head coach didn't get it done. Philly was a paper contender again, maybe next year.
I agree. Its not the Nuggets fault the top teams in both conferences choked in the playoffs. And the Lakers and Suns were two of the hottest teams in the NBA coming into the playoffs due to trades. They were both much better than their seeding indicated. And Miami knocked off the top 2 in the east. They deserved to be in the finals. You can put an * next to Toronto's title. But not Denver.
Its not the Nuggets fault the top teams in both conferences choked in the playoffs.
No one has suggested it is the Nuggets’ fault (or that they didn’t ‘deserve’ to win, for that matter); however, it certainly explains why the Finals were ‘lame’ this year.
No one has suggested it is the Nuggets’ fault (or that they didn’t ‘deserve’ to win, for that matter); however, it certainly explains why the Finals were ‘lame’ this year.
You’re the only one saying that, though. Most everyone else was excited an 8-seed from the play-in had a legitimate chance at the championship due to great coaching and sheer determination. I was much happier to see the Heat there than a team of lazy superstars like Boston, Phoenix or Golden State who played like they didn’t care if they won it or not.
You’re the only one saying that, though. Most everyone else was excited an 8-seed from the play-in had a legitimate chance at the championship due to great coaching and sheer determination.
I’m simply not a fan of Miami (as is, apparently, ‘most everyone else’); that said, I did enjoy watching them beat the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Final (and I agree re: Spoelstra’s coaching, obviously). To my point, that series was more enjoyable than the Finals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510
I was much happier to see the Heat there than a team of lazy superstars like Boston, Phoenix or Golden State who played like they didn’t care if they won it or not.
Phoenix and GS are in the West; neither team had anything to do with the Heat reaching the Finals, although I agree re: Boston (the #2 seed) - particularly relative to a Game #7 at home, no less. That was brutal. ;-)
Point being, on the other end, Denver was the #1 seed anyway.
It was a pretty boring season overall…the Nuggets rightfully dominated, the Warriors/Lakers/Clippers/Sons underperformed, Heat overperformed, Celtics disappointed & the Kings look exciting but still a year or two away from dominating.
It's funny this narrative persists despite the facts having completely changed over the last decade or so.
Team assists are higher than ever after adjusting for pace. Teams this past season averaged 25.3 assists per game, which is on par with the halycon Bird-Magic days even though the average team today has about 3 fewer possessions.
I'm not sure how you reconcile the argument your argument that today's NBA is about "me, me, me" when team assists are higher than ever and teams literally build strategies using analytic models to get the highest percentage shots possible.
I stopped watching the NBA on a consistent basis a few years ago. Too woke and boring. Started watching the when the Lakers acquired Kareem in the mid 70’s.
The egos, the politics, emphasis on 3 pt shots. You have so many guys averaging 20-30 points it’s simply too easy to score and with the middle as open as it is and virtually everyone shooting 3’s including those that have no business doing so based on their 3 pt shooting %.
The style of play is turning many folks off including retired NBS players. Here Jokic, Doncic, and Antetokounmpo explain how it’s so much easier to score in the NBA than it was in Euroleague. https://www.basketballnews.com/stori...arder-than-nba
Top players of the past could average 40 points in todays league. What would Jordan average today? Park 4 guys out at the 3 and let him go one on one. It could be comical.
Don’t know how to fix this. The big man and midrange game had about become extinct. Perhaps due to Jokic, Giannis, and Embiid other teams will have to acquire 7 footers again.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the league comes up with it’s a 4 pt line where centers like Giannis who shoot 29% from 3s will heave up more bricks.
I don’t have cable so don’t watch much NBA like I said other than a few clips on YT but did watch the finals on ABC and did enjoy watching the unselfish and intelligent play by the Nuggets. No doubt now other teams will try to adopt their style and perhaps draft more Euro players which will be good for the league.
Last edited by Leona Valley; 06-20-2023 at 01:18 PM..
I stopped watching the NBA on a consistent basis a few years ago. Too woke and boring. Started watching the when the Lakers acquired Kareem in the mid 70’s.
The egos, the politics, emphasis on 3 pt shots. You have so many guys averaging 20-30 points it’s simply too easy to score and with the middle as open as it is and virtually everyone shooting 3’s including those that have no business doing so based on their 3 pt shooting %.
The style of play is turning many folks off including retired NBS players. Here Jokic, Doncic, and Antetokounmpo explain how it’s so much easier to score in the NBA than it was in Euroleague. https://www.basketballnews.com/stori...arder-than-nba
Top players of the past could average 40 points in todays league. What would Jordan average today? Park 4 guys out at the 3 and let him go one on one. It could be comical.
Don’t know how to fix this. The big man and midrange game had about become extinct. Perhaps due to Jokic, Giannis, and Embiid other teams will have to acquire 7 footers again.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the league comes up with it’s a 4 pt line where centers like Giannis who shoot 29% from 3s will heave up more bricks.
I don’t have cable so don’t watch much NBA like I said other than a few clips on YT but did watch the finals on ABC and did enjoy watching the unselfish and intelligent play by the Nuggets. No doubt now other teams will try to adopt their style and perhaps draft more Euro players which will be good for the league.
Unlikely that the Denver style will spread. It's all built around one very unique star in Jokic, and even with him it wasnt like he was doing this as a kid, otherwise he would have been the number one pick in the draft and not fall all the way to the second round like he did. His game has slowly developed and evolved over several years to the final product you see today. It would be almost impossible to predict this. Kind of like Giannis as well. I'm pretty sure no one looked at the skinny 6-9 twig that got drafted by Miwaukee and thought, gee he's going to grow into this 7 foot muscular monster who will dominate the NBA for years. Took him a long time of hard work to get there.
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