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We hear all the time about -fill in the blank religion- hypocrites, but what about Buddhists? One would think that a philosophy/religion based specifically on self-awareness would prevent hypocrisy.
I am acquainted with a few people who "claim" Buddhism as their belief system. I know all three drink - and I don't mean the occasional glass of wine with dinner. I know at least two of them eat meat, and I know at least two of them smoke (not cigarettes). All three of them will say all kinds of gossipy or snarky things about people.
Now, I'm no Buddhism expert, but I'm pretty sure the Buddha taught against polluting oneself with things like alcohol/smoke, I'm pretty sure vegetarianism is part and parcel of not harming other living things. And I know "right speech" is right up there in importance.
I sometimes think hypocrisy is overdiscussed or misunderstood. I think if you try and fail this is not necessarily hypocrisy. So long as you acknowledge you are "a sinner" and not more virtuous than you are in reality. I'm not sure how this would work in Buddhism, but perhaps if you recognize you are on a path to Enlightenment but haven't reached it or something. That you are working toward purging yourself of selfish desires and unwholesome attachments, but have not reached that goal or something. (I'm not a Buddhist, I may be misreading their terminology)
Hypocrisy I think is more about claiming a virtue you do not possess and setting yourself above others based on dishonesty. Dishonesty is a big part of it. A Mormon who is seen publicly with a big cigar and a scotch may not be hypocritical if they know/say they are "a bad Mormon" for doing this and do not claim to be living according to their faith. Whereas a Mormon who secretly drinks coffee, but puts himself/herself up as a Mormon ideal, is hypocritical.
Like I said though I don't know how hypocrisy works with Buddhists. I'd tend to say if they're not living Buddhist principles, but acknowledge that and want to do better, than they're not hypocritical. If they're not living Buddhist principles, but set themselves up as righteous Buddhists than they are hypocritical.
There are hypocrites in most everything. I'm sure there are rationalists who secretly have "a lucky pair of socks", Marxists with Rolls Royces, and Randian Objectivists who secretly give money to poor non-producers.
I sometimes think hypocrisy is overdiscussed or misunderstood. I think if you try and fail this is not necessarily hypocrisy. So long as you acknowledge you are "a sinner" and not more virtuous than you are in reality. I'm not sure how this would work in Buddhism, but perhaps if you recognize you are on a path to Enlightenment but haven't reached it or something. That you are working toward purging yourself of selfish desires and unwholesome attachments, but have not reached that goal or something. (I'm not a Buddhist, I may be misreading their terminology)
Hypocrisy I think is more about claiming a virtue you do not possess and setting yourself above others based on dishonesty. Dishonesty is a big part of it. A Mormon who is seen publicly with a big cigar and a scotch may not be hypocritical if they know/say they are "a bad Mormon" for doing this and do not claim to be living according to their faith. Whereas a Mormon who secretly drinks coffee, but puts himself/herself up as a Mormon ideal, is hypocritical.
Like I said though I don't know how hypocrisy works with Buddhists. I'd tend to say if they're not living Buddhist principles, but acknowledge that and want to do better, than they're not hypocritical. If they're not living Buddhist principles, but set themselves up as righteous Buddhists than they are hypocritical.
There are hypocrites in most everything. I'm sure there are rationalists who secretly have "a lucky pair of socks", Marxists with Rolls Royces, and Randian Objectivists who secretly give money to poor non-producers.
I don't believe in luck. I'm the rationalist but when something good happens, suddenly thing start to look charmed. At bingo, I won a blackout. I claimed that bingo dauber was lucky...However I didn't win the next time using it so.... It's all about perception
We hear all the time about -fill in the blank religion- hypocrites, but what about Buddhists? One would think that a philosophy/religion based specifically on self-awareness would prevent hypocrisy.
I am acquainted with a few people who "claim" Buddhism as their belief system. I know all three drink - and I don't mean the occasional glass of wine with dinner. I know at least two of them eat meat, and I know at least two of them smoke (not cigarettes). All three of them will say all kinds of gossipy or snarky things about people.
Now, I'm no Buddhism expert, but I'm pretty sure the Buddha taught against polluting oneself with things like alcohol/smoke, I'm pretty sure vegetarianism is part and parcel of not harming other living things. And I know "right speech" is right up there in importance.
What do you think about this?
I used to be a Buddhist. All I can say is people are people no matter what religion you are in. Many Buddhists do their best to follow the precepts, and I have found Buddhist laymembers to be more moral than any other religion around. But then I know of people that claim to be Buddhists and do not follow the precepts or any of the teachings, they just like to be called Buddhists. You may not be a Buddhist expert but the second to last sentence is entirely correct. As for me, while, I am no longer a Buddhist I do my best to follow the precepts. But not eating meat is not a precept per se unless you want to include it in with not harming others and include all sentient beings in that. I say this because some people need to eat meat for their health, which is why the Dali Lama eats some meat.
There are some people who will dub themselves a religious tenet because they like certain teachings or aspects of that tenet, though they may not follow such religion "to the letter", if at all. They may feel it is easier or safer in their life to claim a quasi-religion (Buddhism and Humanism being among the most popular options as they lack a God-head) than no religion.
Or that may not be the case at all. I've certainly heard my fair share of pillheads and alcoholics shout to the heavens about how their brand of sky daddy is the real one and he's watching.
We hear all the time about -fill in the blank religion- hypocrites, but what about Buddhists? One would think that a philosophy/religion based specifically on self-awareness would prevent hypocrisy.
I am acquainted with a few people who "claim" Buddhism as their belief system. I know all three drink - and I don't mean the occasional glass of wine with dinner. I know at least two of them eat meat, and I know at least two of them smoke (not cigarettes). All three of them will say all kinds of gossipy or snarky things about people.
Now, I'm no Buddhism expert, but I'm pretty sure the Buddha taught against polluting oneself with things like alcohol/smoke, I'm pretty sure vegetarianism is part and parcel of not harming other living things. And I know "right speech" is right up there in importance.
What do you think about this?
Buddhism is being practiced and viewed from so many angles! That is so because we people are LAZY, and Buddhism requires LOTS of dedication, patience and work. Not so much reading, or attending scheduled events, but individual practice and meditation. Constant awareness, no wonder it is easy to let go of that for some people in today's world.
In my opinion a serious Buddhist will at some point in their life read the Sutras, which come to be the closest words of Buddha. Lots has happened since then, just as in any other religion. People will always stray...but do not be judgemental. Maybe they are working on other aspects of their ego? You never know, the person standing next to you, might be the happiest person in the world
We hear all the time about -fill in the blank religion- hypocrites, but what about Buddhists? One would think that a philosophy/religion based specifically on self-awareness would prevent hypocrisy.
I am acquainted with a few people who "claim" Buddhism as their belief system. I know all three drink - and I don't mean the occasional glass of wine with dinner. I know at least two of them eat meat, and I know at least two of them smoke (not cigarettes). All three of them will say all kinds of gossipy or snarky things about people.
Now, I'm no Buddhism expert, but I'm pretty sure the Buddha taught against polluting oneself with things like alcohol/smoke, I'm pretty sure vegetarianism is part and parcel of not harming other living things. And I know "right speech" is right up there in importance.
What do you think about this?
FYI, non-monk/nun Buddhists aren't required to abstain from drinking, smoking, and eating meat. And why would you care anyway? I see far more xians going against what they preach than Buddhists.
As far as eating meat goes, it's absolutely okay if you're a Buddhist. Many Buddhist monks take this to a more strict level and either won't eat animal flesh, or they will eat it as long as they themselves didn't kill it. Some also simply become vegans, and turn into the "won't step on an ant" kind of Buddhists. But it's not required, and it's certainly not required of non-monk Buddhists. In fact, Buddha himself enjoyed meat. So...you're misinformed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie3
We hear all the time about -fill in the blank religion- hypocrites, but what about Buddhists? One would think that a philosophy/religion based specifically on self-awareness would prevent hypocrisy.
I am acquainted with a few people who "claim" Buddhism as their belief system. I know all three drink - and I don't mean the occasional glass of wine with dinner. I know at least two of them eat meat, and I know at least two of them smoke (not cigarettes). All three of them will say all kinds of gossipy or snarky things about people.
Now, I'm no Buddhism expert, but I'm pretty sure the Buddha taught against polluting oneself with things like alcohol/smoke, I'm pretty sure vegetarianism is part and parcel of not harming other living things. And I know "right speech" is right up there in importance.
What do you think about this?
If your "Buddhist" friends have achieved sainthood, then they indeed would be expected to lead exemplary lives * cheerful smile! * bingo - nirvana? *
I had a friend who was a Buddhist (Nichiren - no dietary restrictions - they chant for "good fortune") & she said that everyone should always "watch his own back" basically, even within the Buddhist community. Everyone is subject to temptation. This friend was my Buddhist mentor. I'm no longer involved in that relgion. I get bored easily with chanting by rote in Japanese.
We don't stop being human when we profess a religion. We all have to WORK on self improvement... until we reach some point of enlightenment & simply are incapable of "wrong"... I guess.... I think that's the point, in particular, to embracing the Buddhist faith... Isn't it?
Also, there are many sects & they have different social roles in different scenarios... I believe in Japan, Shintoism is very political. That seems a prime hotbed for potential hypocrisy... I could... be wrong!
Shintos, for example according to my understanding, are vegetarian HOWEVER the priests ruled that EATING WHALE MEAT is acceptable. Maybe it's the "other white meat" like shark is? Anyway, when I read about that, I was APPALLED.
Whales are mammals, just like cows. If one is forbidden to eat cows, I would expect one would not be allowed to eat whales...
When I belonged to Nichiren Shoshu, I read that the Shoshu sect had many problems with the Shinto sect which were political in nature...
I'd be very interested if someone could illuminate me
******************with any corrections*****************
Kate
Last edited by sarahkate_m; 09-27-2009 at 03:18 AM..
Reason: whale meat
I say that in three situations flesh can be partaken of – when it is not seen, heard, or suspected (that an animal has been killed for a monk).
Although some have argued that this might be a later interpolation by meat-eating monks, there are many passing references to meat-eating amongst monks and nuns, carried out with the Buddha’s knowledge and without his condemnation. I would argue that the Buddha certainly did eat meat.
I must say this about Buddhist texts. You can never know for sure what the Buddha really taught, just as you can't be sure about the Bible or other religious texts really taught, and everything is open to intrepretation. Things change over the years, and by that I mean that texts are changed and others are created. People attribute certain writings to Buddha that may or may not be Buddha's. And teachings from all sects differ in which texts to accept and which not to accept, as well as how their teachings are presented.
Like Sarah, I was once in SGI, and I found chanting for material gain to be unspiritual for me. I found that whenever another member didn't get what they asked for it was due to their own spirituality--perhaps they were chanting wrong, etc. I joined Zen later on, and the texts they had are not accepted by Theravatins, and on and on. After awhile you just decide that everyone can at least agree that Buddha wrote the precepts and the 8 fold path.
I rather narrowed my beliefs down to trying my best to practice loving kindness and trying to follow the precepts. I am no longer interested in reading and trying to understand the sutras. Am I am Buddhist? No, but not because of that, but because I am tired of dealing with all the inconsistencies of any religion or teaching--and for other reasons I am not a Buddhist. I happen to believe in God and the Soul and part of God. Still I do believe that the strong Buddhists do practice the philosophy to a greater extent than the Christians, Hindus, or Muslims. Why? Because Buddhism is basically a moral philosophy, not a religion. When you join they drill moral values into you.
Most other religions are not against war, except for the Quakers, whom I admire to a certain extent.
Most other religions believe it is okay to reject people if they don't believe as you do, even kill if they must. I can say that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a;sp against war, but they are not against causing harm to their fellow members if they leave their religion for any reason. They practice shunning in the cruelest sense of the word, and members are taught that they deserve to be shunned.
But when it comes to the Tibetan Buddhists you will find on the Buddhist forums that they are mean to other members on that forum if they don't agree with them or question too loudly. One forum has a member that was banned, a moderator, and now he is suing them. You may also learn by checking things out that sexual misconduct by Masters is just as prevalent in Buddhism, especially by lamas, as it is with Hindu gurus. And that they believe in Crazy Wisdom, which they believe gives them the right to verbally abuse others. While Zen has had its problems with masters, they are not into Crazy Wisdom. And at least the Dalai Lama has said to publically expose any teacher that has engaged in sexual misconduct.
And also on these forums you will find people arguing over what is truth. I grew tired of that also.
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