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We are looking into a 2003 Forest River Class B Diesel Motorhome....Your input is greatly appreciated. We are knew to RVing....but not camping. We are retired and seriously thinking about purchasing the above mentioned RV. We would only be using it for trips and we exploring....not full time living. Give me your feelings....good and bad
Having now spent over a year using a Class B conversion van ... a 1993 Roadtrek Dodge 3500 ... I've had nothing but a good experience with it.
It's appropriate for 2 people and a couple of dogs to travel with, the camping space and facilities are comfortable for the functions it was designed to do ... transportation, kitchen, storage, sleeping area, shower and restroom.
I've camped out of mine in summer and winter month climate extremes throughout the Rocky Mountain region. The A/C and furnace have been up to the tasks of a comfortable environment. The rig drives well in all the road conditions that present here, including slick winter conditions, and has averaged around 15-16 mpg at 60-65 mph travels. It has gotten as high as 18 mpg with a favorable tailwind.
I have stealth camped when appropriate, but I also have parks passes for all the states I travel and have enjoyed many nights at local, state, and federal campground areas; as well, I've spent a number of nights at RV campgrounds where I had shore power, water/sewer hookups, and their campground showers/bathrooms. There's been a number of nights when I was faced with the choice of a $35 +/- RV campground fee vs heading out to an unimproved campground where I needed to use my on-board generator for awhile ... at the expense of a dollar or so of gasoline to run the A/C until the evening cooler temps prevailed. It was well worth it for me to find that unimproved campground and enjoy my RV. With a DVD player, Wi-Fi and 3g connections, a stereo system, and my communications/computer gear, it's very pleasant. A fishing rod and access to local streams and lakes is an advantage, too.
We have traveled in this rig for over a week at a time. It's been a wonderful experience. It's not a mobile home on the order of big 5th wheel trailers or Class A coaches with slide-outs ... but it also didn't cost that much to buy and to operate. I used a total of 6 gallons of propane this year for the refrigerator, cooking many meals, and using the furnace for a few nights ... from May through September. That's pretty economical, IMO.
The Forest River will no doubt yield better fuel economy than my 5.2 magnum V-8, and IIRC, more interior room than my older RV. Having had the chance to buy an older Class A diesel pusher rig, I looked at the operating costs, the fuel economy, and the overall huge space that it provided me ... and that was rig without slide-outs. I simply could not justify the expense and space requirements when parked for my travels; it was a huge amount of excess to my requirements.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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I'm a class B fan, and looked seriously at Sprinter based conversions. The only one I liked was a Gulfstream with a tall rear bed and pushed out windows (fiberglass panels that allowed 6'+ sleeping crossways.) It allowed large storage under bed, and still had the bed in a seperate area / not in the middle of the living space (as 'side' / dinette beds are). They were going new for $57k tho listed at $80k.
I couldn't justify that expense, and ended up prefering the features / capital cost, and economy of the Rialta (actually a Class C). 18-20 mpg, with MUCH more space than a sprinter conversion. (Sprinter does not allow van 'bodies' to be tweaked / DOT regs). FYI, my Rialta had 40k miles and was ~$25k. (2000 w/ vr6 bought in 2005)
I would look a little longer and try many out (rent for awhile / spend a rainy day INDOORS Class B TOGETHER).
If you have plenty of dough, the Sprinter drives great (but has significant Maint / repair costs). Tho I'm also a diesel nut, I can't deal with "DEALER repairs on Diesel !!!
If you want the similar experience for significantly less capital expense, consider a Roadtrek or Rialta. (typically $8-$30k used)
A class B is a conversion van.
Too small for more than a single looking to stealth camp
Gotta strongly disagree - a few years after retiring we purchased a new 2010 Airstream Interstate with all the bells & whistles. Its a Class B Sprinter, 3500 chassis, dual rear wheels w/Mercedes diesel. Over roughly most of two years, we toured as much of the US that interested us and a good chunk of lower Canada, including Nova Scotia. We traveled anywhere from overnighters, weeks to over 4 months at a shot. No problems. If we were to return to RVing, I buy another one. The bigger units just don't fit our tastes.
Self, DW and two medium sized dogs. We were very comfortable in it, could hit any of the smaller parks, campgrounds and go sightseeing on the smaller backroads and city traffic as necessary. Its handling and size made it perfectly useful to use as a 2nd car. WE HAD A BLAST!!!
A quality B is a fun way to travel (IMO) and I can recommend it to anyone so inclined.
OP: Before purchasing, it is critical that you have a full assessment of the unit done by qualified RV professionals. All house functions tested & elevated for continued functioning, & a very detailed mechanical inspection, or don't go near it or another used RV. Used units are by far more cost effective but its condition is paramount to whether one would even take it as a gift if it hasn't been properly maintained.
There are more than few low mileage used units in fine condition, just don't consider purchasing it without the assessments and a clear list/price of any necessary fixes or needed maintenance. Yes, you will need to spend hundreds of $$ for a quality assessment, but trust me, its the only way to go.
I bought new because thats my personal preference, but even then very few new units are totally problem free. We were lucky and the few minor issues we had were promptly fixed at the factory. Going used is the smartest choice financially, just do your homework before buying. Best of luck!
PS - there are a ton of valuable RV sites online were you can get chapter and verse on the subject. Just Google the topic.
PSS - if the seller doesn't have maintenance records & receipts - pass on it. There are many others that will have such documentation. An '03 is getting a bit long in the tooth, independent of mileage. RV depreciation is fairly brutal and one can find excellent condition, newer units for way below initial purchase price.
Last edited by Pilgrim21784; 12-08-2012 at 10:47 PM..
Gotta strongly disagree - a few years after retiring we purchased a new 2010 Airstream Interstate with all the bells & whistles. Its a Class B Sprinter, 3500 chassis, dual rear wheels w/Mercedes diesel. Over roughly most of two years, we toured as much of the US that interested us and a good chunk of lower Canada, including Nova Scotia. We traveled anywhere from overnighters, weeks to over 4 months at a shot. No problems. If we were to return to RVing, I buy another one. The bigger units just don't fit our tastes.
Self, DW and two medium sized dogs. We were very comfortable in it, could hit any of the smaller parks, campgrounds and go sightseeing on the smaller backroads and city traffic as necessary. Its handling and size made it perfectly useful to use as a 2nd car. WE HAD A BLAST!!!
A quality B is a fun way to travel (IMO) and I can recommend it to anyone so inclined.
OP: Before purchasing, it is critical that you have a full assessment of the unit done by qualified RV professionals. All house functions tested & elevated for continued functioning, & a very detailed mechanical inspection, or don't go near it or another used RV. Used units are by far more cost effective but its condition is paramount to whether one would even take it as a gift if it hasn't been properly maintained.
There are more than few low mileage used units in fine condition, just don't consider purchasing it without the assessments and a clear list/price of any necessary fixes or needed maintenance. Yes, you will need to spend hundreds of $$ for a quality assessment, but trust me, its the only way to go.
I bought new because thats my personal preference, but even then very few new units are totally problem free. We were lucky and the few minor issues we had were promptly fixed at the factory. Going used is the smartest choice financially, just do your homework before buying. Best of luck!
PS - there are a ton of valuable RV sites online were you can get chapter and verse on the subject. Just Google the topic.
PSS - if the seller doesn't have maintenance records & receipts - pass on it. There are many others that will have such documentation. An '03 is getting a bit long in the tooth, independent of mileage. RV depreciation is fairly brutal and one can find excellent condition, newer units for way below initial purchase price.
lots of good info here Pilgram. My parents always had Airstreams....they are quality. I think we are going to pass on this particular rig....but I think a Class B diesel would be a good starting point for us. We are going to continue looking. Thanks again for all of the good points!
You got me remembering the huge research/data collection/road testing/owner discussions & Mfg. plant visits we did over two years prior to buying the Airstream Interstate in late 2009. It was a major hobby for awhile which I thoroughly enjoyed.
This is just some additional data and opinions based on my research and purchase decision process. Pre-retirement, I did cost/benefit analysis for a living (accountant/financial analyst by profession) and enjoy crunching numbers/data.
This link (Should I buy a new or used RV?) is to a summary of an article on RV depreciation that was the best data I ever found on the subject. The general www.rversonline.orgwebsite is a must read source for all things RV, its one of the best available. The table below (not copywrite material) is an extract, which I believe is still generally valid in pricing used RVs.
Bear in mind, specific circumstances (divorce, sickness, death) situations can significantly impact a private seller's price point on used units. Seasonality is also a big issue with dealers' willingness to move a unit outside the sunbelt areas. I would use the table data as an upper boundary regardless of whether you buy private (highly recommended) or from a dealer.
Your ideal situation is obviously a one owner, shaken down unit (has 10-20K miles on it and been owned for a few years) where the unit is for sale due to the above personal issues.
The table reflects a $100,000 MSRP unit & a middle ground 20% off MSRP buy price of $80,000. No one pays MSRP for RVs, typical discounts generally range from 15% to 25% off MSRP. Note: Class B discounts in my experience in '09 ran more to a 10%-20% range than the 15-25% generic shown below for all classes the data reflect.
I got a 21% discount buying in winter during a major snowstorm here in the NE for cash, but that was on a factory spec order. On the ground dealer inventory units might have been available at even higher discount but I couldn't find one in our spec (a less popular twin bed configuration) at the time we wanted to buy.
The other Airstream dealer I had been negotiating with was twerked at losing the sale and said he could have done it even cheaper if he had known we'd wait for a factory spec order. Anyhow:
MSRP proxy = $100K, Buy Price = $80K Note: The depreciation % is taken off the Buy Price value.
That should give you a reasonable price point for used units on the upper end. You will see much higher asking prices but the real world price is in the ballpark of those depreciated values. You can invest in the NADA & Blue Book RV books to get a general checkpoint, but my experience with those was that they were/are higher than what you can actually get buying private.
Personally, I wouldn't buy from a dealer, the private distressed sale situation is optimal - you just need to be ready to move when the situation comes up. An additional benefit of seeking later model years is that you want the seller to have made enough payments to knock down the loan balance (most folks buy Rvs via loans) without the unit being too old/used. Which, as long as the loan value is below depreciated value, can be a great deal for you and the seller's bottom line bailout price.
Mileage on diesel units isn't a big issue unless its extreme, unlike gassers where its just like a car - it significantly impacts price/value. I'd absolutely not buy any accident damaged but repaired unit, too risky for my money.
Brands/Type: (Just my IMNHO). A Sprinter 3500 would be my only choice. The gassers are okay but the MPG and general quality factors of the Sprinter/Mercedes engine are a no brainer for me. I clocked 23+ MPG in ideal conditions and greatly preferred the Sprinter handling and general road manners over all other units.
Brand wise, I'd stick with (in priority order): Airstream, Pleasure Way, RoadTrek and maybe the Winnebago ERA.
Understand I'm referring to Sprinter units that do not have modified bodies. There are Sprinter conversions on cut-a-way platforms I just wouldn't buy.
I'd definitely only go for the 3500 chassis units (dual rear wheels). The earlier 2500 chassis unit (single rears) can actually be overloaded rather easily, they have rather small actual CC (carrying capacity). The Mfg.s & dealers won't tell you that, but it is a fact worth remembering.
The Sprinter engine was upgraded in 2007 or '08, can't remember which year. Thats one of the reasons we delayed buying and I switched from looking at used units. I wanted the upgraded engine +a year plus on the market before buying. I do the same with cars. Won't but the first year of anything, just my preference.
We live in central MD and the Airstream factory in Ohio was a no brainer trip for us regarding service issues. There are two Airstream dealers closer to us (including the one I purchased from) but arranged our travel plans to use the factory. If its practical for you, I highly recommend factory service as opposed to independent providers, thats just my druthers. The fact that visiting my brother who lives out there also played into that preference.
I paid $93K in late '09 on a $117,500 MSRP unit and sold it to a dealer for $73K in Sept. '11. I never advertised my unit, I sold it on the 2nd dealer call I made. 2012 units were just hitting the market so ours was two depreciation years old. It was a situation where the dealer had a serious buyer lined up so we made out better than average on depreciation - just blind luck.
Last edited by Pilgrim21784; 12-10-2012 at 07:48 PM..
Thank you Pilgram. After reading your post I realize we have a lot more research to do before we buy! Your sources, experience and data about depreciation and platforms is greatly appreciated. You obviously were very through and systematic approach to your research and ultimate Airstream purchase. Thank you again
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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there is a bunch to consider in RV land, and I highly suggest you rent or borrow a few different versions. I see MANY folks get tied (stuck) in to the wrong RV match for their styles / interests.
AND your tastes change as you experience places and stays & you age...
Yesterday I was talking to some folks who need to get $25k out of their slide in camper and $30k out of their new pickup truck. (that will be tough).
After 2 yrs in the camper, They are migrating to a class C. BUT really enjoyed the benefits of the Pickup Camper (offroad / mtns, Alaska, Canada...).
My mom did all types of RV, but was most happy in her Roadtrek B.
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