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Thank you, SD4020. Airstream is likely aspirational, as we are not likely to want to sink the extra 10-20K that it will want for the comparable trailer. The Airstream Basecamp (the only aluminum trailer) is only on the list as it claims off-road capabilities. All other options are fiberglass.
As far as the tow vehicle goes - that’s a bit of challenge. I am fairly certain towing would be better with a pickup or heavier SUV. My wife is not keen on a pick-up truck. That said, the new F150 has a power generation option (I am sure not cheap) that seems very good for camping of the type we are looking to do (in locations without hookups).
You would do best to look for a little used pre-owned unit. So many people buy campers on a whim, only not to make the commitment to use them. Used units in great shape 10 or even 20 years old can be found.
The brands and models of small trailers are very good, however they're very expensive units. The Oliver is the Cadillac of them all. Anything Airstream is 200-300% more costly than it should be.
I'm still a big believer in starting in a high quality pop up with a/c and heat and see how you like the lifestyle. Many campers in our campground have fifth wheel trailers to leave here--and pop up's to travel in. Then sell the pop up when you figure out what suits your needs.
For a little more substantial camping experience, a Hi-Lo trailer that looks like a pop up is good. It cranks up to regular heights. Always go for a inverter generator for a better quality of camping.
New vs. Used: Go for used in good condition. Price is right and you won't have to work the bugs out of a new unit. And every new RV will have some problems to solve--hopefully not too major.
We keep our RV in the Blue Ridge Mountains in storage @ $32.50 a month. I call the campground and they move our 36' fifth wheel on a campsite for $20. It costs me $450 a year in fees and $1 a night to stay there a maximum of 14 days a month. We've owned a membership there for 25 years, and we're spoiled. We have a great WIFI and cable television too.
Towing long distances is best done with a 5th wheel or gooseneck trailer & pickup, not a bumper pull trailer.
You are not experienced trailer-pullers, so I'd think you'd be happier with a motor home or a camper van. Camper vans have come a long way -- I'd go buy a used Sprinter camper van.
Towing long distances is best done with a 5th wheel or gooseneck trailer & pickup, not a bumper pull trailer.
You are not experienced trailer-pullers, so I'd think you'd be happier with a motor home or a camper van. Camper vans have come a long way -- I'd go buy a used Sprinter camper van.
WHY? I have pulled a fifth wheel and also pulled some very large hitched trailers and never noticed much of a difference. The fifth was easier to back up and park, but heading down the road I never noticed any difference.
Possibly, if there were strong cross winds it might cause a problem; however, I have seen as many fifth wheelers flipped over from strong cross winds in WY, UT and ID as hitched trailers. Big difference is the the hitched trailers were flipped, the tow vehicle was not; whereas, I did see a fifth wheel flipped over....trailer and tow vehicle.
WHY? I have pulled a fifth wheel and also pulled some very large hitched trailers and never noticed much of a difference. The fifth was easier to back up and park, but heading down the road I never noticed any difference.
Possibly, if there were strong cross winds it might cause a problem; however, I have seen as many fifth wheelers flipped over from strong cross winds in WY, UT and ID as hitched trailers. Big difference is the the hitched trailers were flipped, the tow vehicle was not; whereas, I did see a fifth wheel flipped over....trailer and tow vehicle.
So why is one better than the other?
The pivot point of the trailer. However, any high profile vehicle will be at risk to flip in high wind.
Fifth wheel trailers cost $40K up. Full size units are about $75K. Then a proper diesel tow vehicle is $60-70K. It mounts up.
A Class A or Class C is to travel in. I've had a Class B, and they're now simply too expensive not to have more room.
A fifth wheel it to haul to one place (like Central Florida), and stay 3 months. They're so large they're not pleasurable to tow. I have one and a 3/4 ton diesel truck.
My cousin has a $385K diesel pusher Class A with 4 slides. He tows a horse trailer 7K miles a year to rodeos. It's overkill. I'd hate to see what his advalorem taxes are per year on that rig.
Start small. Go big when you figure out what your lifestyle will be like later.
My family likes to camp in the Forest Service primitive camps, preferably with fishing. A trailer is good because you can unhitch, set up camp, and still go sightseeing or shopping and not have to put everything away and take it with you.
I've got a 21 ft Salem with off road suspension that handles bad roads easily. With the good propane heat system, we can camp in the snow. More than once, we have had to dig our way in or out.
If you have a generous amount to spend, I highly recommend the Arctic Fox travel trailer. They make a dandy 21 footer set up for off road. You can't buy a better trailer than that. I don't have one because it cost twice what my Salem cost (and it will live four times longer).
As for tow vehicles, I suggest something that is heavy enough to stop your trailer going down hill if the trailer brakes go out. I see a lot of really light vehicles towing trailers and I consider them a disaster in the making.
Thank you so much for all the ideas. I am reading every one of them with interest and researching the trailers that are mentioned. Will read it together with my wife in a few days - so that both of us process the information independently and then discuss it.
We will stay below 20 ft - as far as the trailer goes. We are used to tent camping and live in a modest size condo - so having a lot of space isn’t very high on our priority list. The tow vehicle is still a question mark. Seems like a heavier vehicle would be better, but it does depend upon what my wife would agree to. So, we may end up with the smallest trailers instead.
I am a retired Forester. I have owned two tent trailers, lots of trucks, the 19 foot Casita, and a 31 foot 5th wheel.
Rough Plan/Idea: We will only be able to put it into place 8-12 months from now at the earliest.
In term of trailers we are thinking of: Casita (16/17ft), Escape (17 or 19 ft), Airstream Basecamp (16 ft), Airstream Nest (17 ft). The trailer weights ranges from 2500 to 3400 lbs and the gross (loaded) weight ranges from 3000 to 4000 lbs.
Forget the Airstreams. To much money for the value. Forget tent trailers to much bother to set-up and break-down. I hear you on the bear thing, but they are awful in high winds. They are great for weekend trips with kids. I loved mine, but not for extended traveling in retirement.
I bought the 19 foot Casita. I would have bought the Escape 21. But both the Casita and Escapes are built to order and a significant time before pick-up. The Casita was two months. The Escape was 1 year.
They are both well made trailers. Nash and Lance make some very good trailers, but they are larger than the Casita or Escape. Smooth fiberglass with rounded edges are pretty bear proof except for the door and windows!!
Advice: Any and all advice is welcome. Some questions in our mind are:
Towing vehicle: I am sure we will make sure that the towing capacity is well above the gross trailer weight. But, I have picked up that just because the vehicle can tow the weight doesn't mean it is a good idea - and the weight of the vehicle in comparison with the trailer is a factor. I get the concept but not about how to apply it. What is the acceptable or desirable ratio of vehicle weight to trailer weight? Assuming a gross trailer weight between 3-4000 lbs, what is the towing vehicle type or weight we should consider as comfortable. I am also not clear about the trailer weight, loaded trailer weight (just adding 600 lbs), tongue weight? In terms of driving experience, it is mainly limited to cars and (rental) SUVs and occasional RV or moving truck.
Yep, you want lots more towing vehicle than trailer for stopping. I tow my Casita with a one-ton diesel truck. I can stop it and I can run it at 80 mph up 8% grades!! I do get a lot of teasing at diesel stations on whether I have enough truck to tow the Casita!! BUT, I bought the truck to tow the 31 foot 5th wheel and it barely meets those towing requirements!!
I would look for at least 10 to 15 thousand in towing capacity. Remember you are also towing yourself, your gear, and all the stuff you stuffed into the trailer. Remember that you can never have ENOUGH truck when towing, but I might be close with the Casita and RAM 3500 diesel.
On that note. You will be using your truck or SUV for storage. The Casita has very little storage. You will using your tow vehicle for storage so a SUV makes perfect sense with the Casita. Much easier to get things than out of a truck. Make sure you have enough storage for your toys.
This is what I normally take on my trips.....
Two bicycles on installed FRONT hitch on the truck. In the rear seat of the truck there are two dogs. The small dog is in a small kennel, the 100 lb dog is on his bed that takes up the rest of the back.
On top of the truck canopy either two kayaks, or a fly-fishing pontoon boat, or a Yakima Sky Box depending on what I am doing.
Inside the truck bed under the canopy: extra dry food, cooler with cold food, two telescopes and observing equipment, couple of computers, trailer equipment, air-compressor, Honda gas generator, two folding chairs, LaFuma recliner, extra gas and water, folding solar panels, repair tools and various odds and ends.
Make a list of your toys that you intend to take with you and then decide on a appropriate tow vehicle. It is where the toys will live.
New or Used:Our thinking is new for the following reason: We are not knowledgeable or talented in practical repair, mechanical or electrical. So, if it requires more than 5 minutes with a screwdriver (exaggerating but only a little), we need to take it somewhere. But, we are good at following the correct usage and maintenance instructions. The prices of new seem within our capacity. Also, we aren't the most skilled at trading - so often lose a little both buying and selling. So, buying used and then trading up isn't the best fit for us................................................ ............................................
This one is simple. Good luck finding a used Casita or Escape. A 10 year old used Casita was 15,000 and I could buy a new one for 20,000 on sale. That was a no brainer decision. Same with the Escapes. They just do not depreciate.
Wet bath vs separate bath and toilet:As far as my wife goes, the bath and toilet (limited as they are in small trailers) are the #1 requirement. All except one choice (Casita) feature wet bath. Any idea how good/bad that is. [We understand that the usage might be limited in non-hookup situations, but it is an important factor.]
Dry bath is better, but just by a hair. I made a cedar floor that I keep inside the wet bath when not showering. I take it out to shower. Out west the bath dries pretty quickly. Not much of an issue. I would make a false floor made out of redwood or cedar...it really does make a difference in having to totally mop out the floor every time you take a shower. I just leave the wet bath wet until it evaporates. Your standards may vary.
If everything else is perfect. I would take the wet bath, but dry is better but just by a hair. I do take a shower every day and it works fine for me.
Timing:It is clear that our usage will be relatively light in the first 2-3 years (as we continue our careers) and increase once we retire, provided our health holds up. My thought is that this will require an investment either way - and we are better making that sooner. Does that make sense?
Yes, get it before retirement and use it. See note about ordering a year in advance. I would upgrade to the 21 Escape. It has more storage and is much more comfortable to live in for extended time periods. Also it is made in Canada is more in tune with back-country travel than the Casita, but I have no complaints about the Casita on back-roads. It is just that the Escape is better designed simply because they are made in Canada than Texas. Lots more back roads in Canada.
Lots of Canadians get a Escape or Casita and then put a pop-up truck camper on the back of the truck. That gives you a two-bedroom, two bath RV!!! Or you can get a bare 4-wheel camper out of Woodland, CA and that will you storage, plus another bed in the case of company.
You WILL end up boondocking quicker than you think. Campgrounds get old pretty quick. Just don't close that option.
Join Escapees and sign up for their forum. Lots of good advice there on ALL facets of RV'ing from pretty well informed people that have made all the mistakes for you and are willing to share those mistakes with you!!
Link to Casita review....three parts. This is part one.
About 6 lustrum ago we spent a lot of time traveling/camping/fishing/exploring with my pickup/truck camper. The times were very enjoyable & comfortable.
Best of Luck for you & your beloved wife.
Be Safe...Stay Healthy.
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