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"In 2007, 25% of Canadian adults aged 25 to 64 had received a university degree or a university certificate above a bachelor's, surpassing 23 other OECD nations. Norway led the way with 32%, followed by the United States (31%)."
I think her opinions are rooted in the data from this recent and well publicized story:
All they say is Canada's post secondary educated population is "50%". Not sure what ages are included or if a degree needs to have been granted, didn't say. But at the same time, if Canada has 25% of it's adults with a degree ABOVE a bachelor's degree, that sort of makes me think that it's true we've got 50%.
All they say is Canada's post secondary educated population is "50%". Not sure what ages are included or if a degree needs to have been granted, didn't say. But at the same time, if Canada has 25% of it's adults with a degree ABOVE a bachelor's degree, that sort of makes me think that it's true we've got 50%.
Your link, and the one of the poster you were responding to, came from the same OECD report (though maybe not the same year) --
You can check indicator A1, table A1.1a. Basically there are 2 types of tertiary education. Type A includes all graduate work, while type B focus on technical/occupational skills. The 50% figure you quoted refers to type A+type B (all tertiary education) while the other poster's 25% vs 31% is for type A only.
edit -- the OECD's technical notes for that data says type B education attainment for Canada is inflated. In other words the 25% vs 31% is correct but the 50% total is too high. By how much, I have no clue.
Thanks for the recent posts about my viewpoint on education. Importantly, this was not intended to insult Canadians but provide American EX-PATS with a realistic view on the differences between the Elementary eucational expectations of the 2 countries. The full report can be found at http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5865. Importantly, American kids who spend key years in Canadian public schools will have a less rigorous educational experience and potentially be behind thier US counterparts when they return. Numerous Ex-Pats have experienced this and it is important that they be prepared for it.
Additionnally, for stats1, I do not think of Michigan as the most rigorous educational state having come from more rigorous ones, but it has turned out to be more rigorous than Ontario's. AFter 5 weeks in Ontario Public school, the Ontario school called me to let me know that my Grade 3 and Grade 6 students had passed out of the entire year of Ontario curriculum, which they had tested them on because they realised my children were ahead. This was a clear example of why I had to do more research on the differences.
In answer to worldwide studies question and PISA, you can show me all kinds of reports but the reality for AMerican ex-Pats is not reflected in these reports. ALso many of these reports obscure issues such as how American education is not tracked at age 15/16 as it is in many European countries thru levels tests and other methods; in Canada between COllege bound vs. University bound curricula. There has been criticism of PISA - try looking at TIMMS for additional insight.
Regardless, Canadians should continue to support and enjoy their educational system but American ex-pats face different issues which they need to be prepared to address because so little has been written about the differences and their impact on the students. American ex-pats are those for whom the post is intended. Not Canadians or Russians Canadians. American ex-pats could contact any of the AMerican Women's Clubs to talk directly to Americans in their same situation.
One issue facing all of these schools is the implementation of Politically Correct teaching methods which I have found hurts the performance of the schools. Ontario has adopted many of these practices. An excellent book on this was written by a Canadian author, Michael Zwaagstra.
You are quoting your own personal experiences and research as "reports"?
People in that forum also disagreed with this 'report', including a Canadian teacher trained and certified in New York.
My eldest son had his first 7 years of schooling in Canada and is scoring above average in all categories on the MAP tests here. I have no doubt that American kids in Canada will get just as good an education and you do not need to worry so much about them.
Where is this information you have that the Ontario Math curriculum is two years behind because my kids are doing the same math as their friends in Ontario? My youngest (grade 2) is actually slightly behind at the moment, but different teachers teach at different paces and in different order so I am not panicking over that.
American ex-pats are those for whom the post is intended. Not Canadians or Russians Canadians. American ex-pats could contact any of the AMerican Women's Clubs to talk directly to Americans in their same situation.
This is posted in a forum entitled "Canada" and your thread title does not mention ex-pats. In reality, it doesn't matter who the thread was intended for if your analysis of the data doesn't match the reality. Since my boys will likely be returning to Canada in a few years, I will indeed be looking into this more to see if I can figure out what you are talking about.
So far the only issues I can see revolve around History and Geography - reading, writing, math and science all seem to be running in line with what they were doing in Canada.
Thanks for the recent posts about my viewpoint on education. Importantly, this was not intended to insult Canadians but provide American EX-PATS with a realistic view on the differences between the Elementary eucational expectations of the 2 countries. The full report can be found at http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5865. Importantly, American kids who spend key years in Canadian public schools will have a less rigorous educational experience and potentially be behind thier US counterparts when they return. Numerous Ex-Pats have experienced this and it is important that they be prepared for it.
Additionnally, for stats1, I do not think of Michigan as the most rigorous educational state having come from more rigorous ones, but it has turned out to be more rigorous than Ontario's. AFter 5 weeks in Ontario Public school, the Ontario school called me to let me know that my Grade 3 and Grade 6 students had passed out of the entire year of Ontario curriculum, which they had tested them on because they realised my children were ahead. This was a clear example of why I had to do more research on the differences.
In answer to worldwide studies question and PISA, you can show me all kinds of reports but the reality for AMerican ex-Pats is not reflected in these reports. ALso many of these reports obscure issues such as how American education is not tracked at age 15/16 as it is in many European countries thru levels tests and other methods; in Canada between COllege bound vs. University bound curricula. There has been criticism of PISA - try looking at TIMMS for additional insight.
Regardless, Canadians should continue to support and enjoy their educational system but American ex-pats face different issues which they need to be prepared to address because so little has been written about the differences and their impact on the students. American ex-pats are those for whom the post is intended. Not Canadians or Russians Canadians. American ex-pats could contact any of the AMerican Women's Clubs to talk directly to Americans in their same situation.
One issue facing all of these schools is the implementation of Politically Correct teaching methods which I have found hurts the performance of the schools. Ontario has adopted many of these practices. An excellent book on this was written by a Canadian author, Michael Zwaagstra.
You have made a substantial decision to send your children to private school in Ontario..both philosophical and financial, so I'm not surprised at the vigor of your defense, even in the face of contrary evidence (facts) supporting the 'other side'
just to comment further on PISA b/c standardized testing is the best starting point when evaluating any educational system (there are many more factors to consider, but PISA (and TMSS..even though TMSS has a weaker comparison group which includes some developing nations) is a litmus test and must be considered)
PISA and TMSS correlate strongly, 0.84 for math and 0.95 for science so they're similar, FYI
I suggest you read the Harvard study that i included. In PISA, Canada performs at the level of your best performing state, which generally is Massachusetts and Ontario performs better than the Canadian average generally. So Ontario generally outperforms all US states on PISA. for the record i'm a critic of the Ontario public school system and once considered becoming a teacher and have several friends who are teachers.
Political correctness is a problem in all western school systems, no?
I have a difficulty with your 1.5yr lag in the face of such strong test results. People who ignore objective, statistically significant, scientific testing results are usually those whose group has performed poorly. I find your posts disingenuous, because you generalize from anecdotal evidence which such conviction. Don't mean to offend. Good luck.
Kids in Canada are taught tolerance - of EVERYTHING! I find that distressing that they are taught to accept things in society that are bad..and in need of reform...compliance is a big thing in Canada - It is worrisome that once these kids grow up - they will not know the difference between that common thing called THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG...it's a morally static school system - governed by political correctness...and void of the virtue of honour and independent thinking.
Well, I don't see the point of teaching physics in 7th grade. You really need calculus to do physics properly.
What's the point of learning physics in Gr. 7 if he's not going to learn it properly until at least Gr. 11.
In Soviet schools physics ( as much as chemistry, zoology, (later biology)) were taught from the 5th ( or 6th grade,) through 10th grade. Calculus - only in 9th or 10th grade from what I remember.
So obviously there was a point, since children were introduced to physics step by step, from the early age on.
By 7th-8th grade everyone already knew the level of abilities of each and every student.
They were properly screened for that, since the system has been set for it.
( Of course the "financial situation" of students families didn't matter at that point. Unlike in the US.)
Last edited by erasure; 02-15-2012 at 10:10 PM..
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