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You probably really didn't drive through Lorain. From the highway or other roads it may seem like nothing. But in reality, it looks very much like the ghettos of Cleveland, some areas worse. Hamilton doesn't have nearly the same hispanic population... and I doubt that the crime is worse. Even the statistics probably don't prove much. When it comes to violent crime, I don't think there is even a comparison... well in terms of homicides. I don't think Lorain has a competent police force that even collects the crime data correctly either. Which is what a lot of police forces do (ie East Cleveland)
But you are right, I dislike Hamilton as well. Both cities need to step it up.
BTW - Overall, isn't Elyria's crime larger than Lorain? I'm almost positive Elryia is worse than Lorain and about the same as Hamilton(besides homicides). That is what makes Lorain worse - it's counterpart in crime Elyria.
i drove through it out of curiosity the last time i was in cleveland, and it wasn't anything extensive at all, so i'm sure i missed the worst of it. i'm nobody's expert on what's going on up there, but lorain and elryia have crime indexes around 300. middletown has a crime rate of 400-500 and hamilton's is 650-750. strictly crime non-murder, hamilton compares to ohio's bigger cities, and before the last few years, the murder rate was comparable to columbus.
I said I didnt want this argument, but here it is...since its already here I might as well just set it straight.
As I said, Lorain and Elyria dont report the crime right at all. If you seriously think Lorain is anywhere near the US average you have never been here before. Lorain could easily be around 700-850, there is no way it could be any less than 650 on the city-data system, Elyria should be around 600. Lorain has more murders than Hamilton also, Lorain averages about 7 a year and had 9 last year. Not to be racist (Im half puerto rican myself) but I dont believe any city thats 90% white (Hamilton) could be considered "ghetto". Its a fact that blacks and hispanics are many times more likely to commit crimes and be in poverty. Dont forget Lorain also has the highest hispanic% of any city in Ohio. Here are the official stats:
Lorain: 61% white, 21% hispanic, 16% black, 4% mixed
Hamilton: 88% white, 2.5% hispanic, 7.5% black, 1% mixed
See? huge difference. Also Lorain has a much higher poverty rate, last year it was at 26%, Hamiltons is 13% (most recent I could find). Lorain had falling down houses/buildings that stood like that for years, and still has many. Personally from seeing the worst areas and most of both cities I can confirm that Lorain looks, and is much worse than Hamilton. I will tell you that the decay is very extensive, its even worse than when I was growing up. Pretty much all of central Lorain, and south-central is decayed, a large portion of South Lorain, and even the Eastside has gotten rough. Most the city is decayed now. If you want to know where to see the worst, Ill tell you. Im not saying Hamilton is a no-crime suburb, but Lorain is just a really rough city, worse than Hamilton in probably every category.
Last edited by BelieveInCleve; 10-02-2008 at 12:47 AM..
I said I didnt want this argument, but here it is...since its already here I might as well just set it straight.
As I said, Lorain and Elyria dont report the crime right at all. If you seriously think Lorain is anywhere near the US average you have never been here before. Lorain could easily be around 700-850, there is no way it could be any less than 650 on the city-data system, Elyria should be around 600. Lorain has more murders than Hamilton also, Lorain averages about 7 a year and had 9 last year. Not to be racist (Im half puerto rican myself) but I dont believe any city thats 90% white (Hamilton) could be considered "ghetto". Its a fact that blacks and hispanics are many times more likely to commit crimes and be in poverty. Dont forget Lorain also has the highest hispanic% of any city in Ohio. Here are the official stats:
Lorain: 61% white, 21% hispanic, 16% black, 4% mixed
Hamilton: 88% white, 2.5% hispanic, 7.5% black, 1% mixed
See? huge difference. Also Lorain has a much higher poverty rate, last year it was at 26%, Hamiltons is 13% (most recent I could find). Lorain had falling down houses/buildings that stood like that for years, and still has many. Personally from seeing the worst areas and most of both cities I can confirm that Lorain looks, and is much worse than Hamilton. I will tell you that the decay is very extensive, its even worse than when I was growing up. Pretty much all of central Lorain, and south-central is decayed, a large portion of South Lorain, and even the Eastside has gotten rough. Most the city is decayed now. If you want to know where to see the worst, Ill tell you. Im not saying Hamilton is a no-crime suburb, but Lorain is just a really rough city, worse than Hamilton in probably every category.
you're telling me i should believe that lorain is so much worse even though its crime rate is less than half of hamilton's, annually? what if hamilton is misreporting too? maybe the real index is around 900, we could play that game all day. from what i see, hamilton has had a down couple years in murders, but hamilton's rate has been much higher on average for years and years. hamilton is decayed too, the problems of factory closings isn't limited to ne ohio. the argument you're making about race doesn't hold up. this is the same city that was a haven for gangsters nationwide up through the 70's and into the 80's, and the same city that sent los angeles and ricky ross home via gunfire when they brought crack to cincinnati in the 80's. poverty and a lack of education creates crime, and judging by the state of the city and the worst graduation rate in sw ohio, hamilton has quite a bit. if you go to hamilton, you see whites, blacks, dominicans, puerto ricans, cubans, and mexicans everywhere. come to the eastside and see for yourself. all you'll see is gun shops, family dollar/save a lot/thrift stores, fast food, crumbling factories, trashy housing, and drug addicts.
i drove through it out of curiosity the last time i was in cleveland, and it wasn't anything extensive at all, so i'm sure i missed the worst of it. i'm nobody's expert on what's going on up there, but lorain and elryia have crime indexes around 300. middletown has a crime rate of 400-500 and hamilton's is 650-750. strictly crime non-murder, hamilton compares to ohio's bigger cities, and before the last few years, the murder rate was comparable to columbus.
Where are you getting these crime indexes? If you could provide them for each city it'd be alot easier. I know Citydata doesn't have Elyria... and that it has incorrect data for Cleveland, so I don't really trust it as a liable source.
you're telling me i should believe that lorain is so much worse even though its crime rate is less than half of hamilton's, annually? what if hamilton is misreporting too? maybe the real index is around 900, we could play that game all day. from what i see, hamilton has had a down couple years in murders, but hamilton's rate has been much higher on average for years and years. hamilton is decayed too, the problems of factory closings isn't limited to ne ohio. the argument you're making about race doesn't hold up. this is the same city that was a haven for gangsters nationwide up through the 70's and into the 80's, and the same city that sent los angeles and ricky ross home via gunfire when they brought crack to cincinnati in the 80's. poverty and a lack of education creates crime, and judging by the state of the city and the worst graduation rate in sw ohio, hamilton has quite a bit. if you go to hamilton, you see whites, blacks, dominicans, puerto ricans, cubans, and mexicans everywhere. come to the eastside and see for yourself. all you'll see is gun shops, family dollar/save a lot/thrift stores, fast food, crumbling factories, trashy housing, and drug addicts.
could i see some pictures of lorain?
You see? I said I didnt want this argument and here it is still going on. This is supposed to be about Lorain and the condition of the city and the poor choices it has made. Why do you keep bringing up Hamilton? The points I made already ended this argument, but yet you keep going.
Ive been to Hamilton before. Though Ive only been through there a few times my cousins showed me around all of the city, Ive been all through the Eastside. Its not worse than Lorain as far as looks, I will tell you that much for sure. When I was there almost all the people I saw were white, which reflects the stats. I only saw a few blacks on the Eastside and I dont think I saw one hispanic or other race the whole time I was there. In Lorain most of the people you will see around are Hispanic or Black. Theres a reason they have a Puerto Rican Parade, and International Festival in Lorain, its many times more diverse than Hamilton. And Im not joking about that crime thing, its easy to see on there that Lorain doesnt report them, Elyria only reported 1year and even those stats are off I checked the Elyria Police website for myself, those stats are way off. Its just an estimate of mine, but I can say confidently that Elyria is around 450-600 and Lorain is around 650-750, Im not exaggerating. Lorains goes back a long time too, there was a big mafia presence here just like in Cleveland which is right next to us, the Italian/Mafia Community is many times larger up here than in SW Ohio. All the arguments I made are very valid, you are just another person who doesnt pay attention to the truth if it doesnt agree with the point you are trying to make. Ill try to find pictures online until I can get a digital camera and take them for myself, you would be surprised how bad it is, everything you mentioned and much much more. Now if you are done Id like to get back on topic.
... the Italian/Mafia Community is many times larger up here than in SW Ohio....
Cle440, google mafia and Newport, KY. lol ... Interesting stuff to say the least. The entire city was ran by the mafia. Underground casinos, prostitution rings, money laundering, they were a satellite mob stemmed from Chicago and NYC. The police force and politicians were paid off by them. During prohibition, Newport Police directed traffic from Cincinnati into Newport to buy alcohol. Yeah, it was pretty bad. So bad that Robert Kennedy and the FBI were assigned to clean up the mess. If R. Kennedy was assigned, you know it was pretty bad. Here is a snippet from Answers.com:
Quote:
Organized crime and the Teamsters
As Attorney General, Kennedy pursued a relentless crusade against organized crime and the mafia, sometimes disagreeing on strategy with FBI head J. Edgar Hoover. Convictions against notorious organized crime figures rose by 800% during his term.[6]
You see? I said I didnt want this argument and here it is still going on. This is supposed to be about Lorain and the condition of the city and the poor choices it has made. Why do you keep bringing up Hamilton? The points I made already ended this argument, but yet you keep going.
Ive been to Hamilton before. Though Ive only been through there a few times my cousins showed me around all of the city, Ive been all through the Eastside. Its not worse than Lorain as far as looks, I will tell you that much for sure. When I was there almost all the people I saw were white, which reflects the stats. I only saw a few blacks on the Eastside and I dont think I saw one hispanic or other race the whole time I was there. In Lorain most of the people you will see around are Hispanic or Black. Theres a reason they have a Puerto Rican Parade, and International Festival in Lorain, its many times more diverse than Hamilton. And Im not joking about that crime thing, its easy to see on there that Lorain doesnt report them, Elyria only reported 1year and even those stats are off I checked the Elyria Police website for myself, those stats are way off. Its just an estimate of mine, but I can say confidently that Elyria is around 450-600 and Lorain is around 650-750, Im not exaggerating. Lorains goes back a long time too, there was a big mafia presence here just like in Cleveland which is right next to us, the Italian/Mafia Community is many times larger up here than in SW Ohio. All the arguments I made are very valid, you are just another person who doesnt pay attention to the truth if it doesnt agree with the point you are trying to make. Ill try to find pictures online until I can get a digital camera and take them for myself, you would be surprised how bad it is, everything you mentioned and much much more. Now if you are done Id like to get back on topic.
if you didn't see any latinos, you weren't in hamilton. you're making up numbers that you think is the true rate of lorain/elyria, but the data we do have available shows hamilton's crime is over twice as high. i though i ended this convo, but we all know cleveland is much better and much worse than cincinnati at the same time . you have no proof whatsoever, but you keep arguing...why? oh, and i'm allowed to bring up hamilton when you're on here exaggerating all this stuff about lorain, when i know hamilton is worse.
Where are you getting these crime indexes? If you could provide them for each city it'd be alot easier. I know Citydata doesn't have Elyria... and that it has incorrect data for Cleveland, so I don't really trust it as a liable source.
man lorain is weak....ya'll crying on here like its so bad their..lol...than had the nerve to compare it to east cleveland...stop it..i live in east cleveland..been to lorain a million times..city is boring as hell thats about it....all them little fake gangs ya'll speak of where no where in sight..maybe ya'll should just move to canada or something...
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. you have no proof whatsoever, but you keep arguing...why? oh, and i'm allowed to bring up hamilton when you're on here exaggerating all this stuff about lorain, when i know hamilton is worse.
