Skyscrapers in Columbus's Future? (Cleveland, Cincinnati: credit, universities, subsidized)

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

Outside of Chicago and Minneapolis, new high rise development is nonexistent in most of the Midwest. Cleveland is getting it's new Hilton Hotel that's a high rise...but it's being paid for by the County Gov't...the demand simply isn't there for private developers...I think that will be a boondoggle to Cuyahoga County too...if a private developer doesn't see potential return, I highly doubt it will turn out profitable for the County.

Welcome to the Hotel Cuyahoga | Scene and Heard: Scene's News Blog | Cleveland Scene

My hunch is that this hotel is superbly located and will do well if the national economy doesn't plummet into an abyss. It will, however, put pressure on hotels located further from the convention center and also more distant from First Energy Stadium/Rock Hall. It will be served by free bus downtown bus trolleys and be a short walk from a Healthline bus rapid stop at Public Square.

Financing costs are so low today, likely compared to the Baltimore experience, that Cuyahoga County has a decent chance IMO of retiring its debt. Construction costs also are relatively low in Cleveland.

Cleveland benefits from having its casino downtown, providing higher utilization for the Tower City Ritz and Renaissance hotels.

It's likely that Columbus made a major mistake by not locating its casino downtown.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Tenzo

I thought we were talking about skyscrapers

See post 17.

However, Wikipedia requires over 40 stories to be defined a skyscraper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyscraper

Note that, according to the Wikipedia article, the definition may change from city to city:

<<A relatively big building may be considered a skyscraper if it protrudes well above its built environment and changes the overall skyline.>>

[WRnative]

According to this list, Ohio has only 13 buildings of over 150 meters in height, but four of them have fewer than 40 floors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ldings_in_Ohio

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Land values -- higher land values justify more expensive development

Construction costs -- skyscrapers are more expensive to build

Energy prices -- among the most important factors; higher energy prices encourage higher densities

Transportation -- this is very important, and perhaps a negative for Columbus; mass transit eliminates the need for massive parking, enables work forces to efficiently commute to and from high-rise offices, and lowers cost of commuting

Density -- high rises raise density by encouraging workers to live nearby, especially if a city has a dynamic downtown, also a problem in downtown Columbus

Financing cost -- lower real rates encourage production

Vanity factor -- major corporations often seek a landmark presence

Strength of local economy, average real wage levels, community wealth

Communication quality, cost -- the development of the internet and the increasing quality and falling cost of communication services clearly discourages high-rise development

A specific concern for downtown Columbus is that much of its downtown economy is dependent on state government. This may be quicksand in coming decades if other cities seek the dispersion of state services facilitated by cloud-based solutions. Additionally, it would be interesting to know how much of downtown Columbus employment is related to Nationwide Medicare operations, which also could be quicksand in coming decades for several reasons, such as more advanced networks with artificial intelligence.

You are wrong about the economy. I know the "Columbus is all OSU and state government!" claim is very popular here, but it isn't actually based in reality. The city has a very diverse economy made up of many different industries. Unlike some of the fantasies some may have, the city is just not going to fall apart economically, sorry.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

You are wrong about the economy. I know the "Columbus is all OSU and state government!" claim is very popular here, but it isn't actually based in reality. The city has a very diverse economy made up of many different industries. Unlike some of the fantasies some may have, the city is just not going to fall apart economically, sorry.

Yeah, state government and the resulting multiplier effect is not massively important to the downtown Columbus economy. Rubbish to make such a claim IMO.

Just consider the impact of the state retirement fund operations in Columbus, and all of the organizations and lobbyists with headquarters in Columbus. Law firms are greatly aggrandized in Columbus by the presence of the state capital.

Just PERS has 3,700 relatively high paid employees and about $100 billion in assets managed from Columbus.

http://www.afscme.org/issues/pension...ent_System.pdf

https://www.opers.org/pubs-archive/f...014%20PAFR.pdf

Just rubbish.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Yeah, state government and the resulting multiplier effect is not massively important to the downtown Columbus economy. Rubbish to make such a claim IMO.

Just consider the impact of the state retirement fund operations in Columbus, and all of the organizations and lobbyists with headquarters in Columbus. Law firms are greatly aggrandized in Columbus by the presence of the state capital.

Just PERS has 3,700 relatively high paid employees and about $100 billion in assets managed from Columbus.

http://www.afscme.org/issues/pension...ent_System.pdf

https://www.opers.org/pubs-archive/f...014%20PAFR.pdf

Just rubbish.

That would affect the entire state, not just Columbus. The other 2 Cs both have north of 100K government jobs.

My point, though, has more to do with the makeup of the actual economy. It is factually diverse. Government is not even the largest industry. This is why Columbus weathers recessions relatively well, including the last one, even as government jobs were hit hard. Again, I know some have dreams of Columbus falling apart so another city can reclaim whatever glory it believes Columbus has stolen, but it's just not going to happen.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

That would affect the entire state, not just Columbus. The other 2 Cs both have north of 100K government jobs.

My point, though, has more to do with the makeup of the actual economy. It is factually diverse. Government is not even the largest industry. This is why Columbus weathers recessions relatively well, including the last one, even as government jobs were hit hard. Again, I know some have dreams of Columbus falling apart so another city can reclaim whatever glory it believes Columbus has stolen, but it's just not going to happen.

Only Columbus has the massive number of state government and private-sector government related jobs. As they are supported by economic activity throughout the entire state, they create a massive multiplier effect compared to local government jobs such as teachers, police, firemen, etc. in other Ohio cities.

Other Ohio cities don't have the likes of PERS, STRS, etc., with many employees earning six figure, even high six figure salaries. Consider the private sector investment and legal sector jobs that support these pension plans. Consider all of the Ohio state lobbyists in Columbus.

It's pathetic that insecure Columbus posters can't even admit the significant impact on the Columbus economy of being the state capital, especially the associated private sector jobs.

State jobs shift to central Ohio | The Columbus Dispatch

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

You are wrong about the economy. I know the "Columbus is all OSU and state government!" claim is very popular here, but it isn't actually based in reality. The city has a very diverse economy made up of many different industries. Unlike some of the fantasies some may have, the city is just not going to fall apart economically, sorry.

It's not "all" anything. But government does prop up Columbus, and MANY other cities (Cleveland included, though certainly not as much) to an impressive degree.

Do you think people are flocking to Washington D.C. for their manufacturing sector?

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Only Columbus has the massive number of state government and private-sector government related jobs. As they are supported by economic activity throughout the entire state, they create a massive multiplier effect compared to local government jobs such as teachers, police, firemen, etc. in other Ohio cities.

Other Ohio cities don't have the likes of PERS, STRS, etc., with many employees earning six figure, even high six figure salaries. Consider the private sector investment and legal sector jobs that support these pension plans. Consider all of the Ohio state lobbyists in Columbus.

It's pathetic that insecure Columbus posters can't even admit the significant impact on the Columbus economy of being the state capital, especially the associated private sector jobs.

State jobs shift to central Ohio | The Columbus Dispatch

Wow, Cbus is even more of a leech than I thought! Thanks for the article.

People in Columbus should really be wary of all this state influence. It's already easy to see how this affects the thinking on this forum.

And it is amazing how Columbus people will never admit the obvious in relation to state government. Look, I live in a state capital. Boston definitely steals resources from some other, somewhat depressed, cities in MA (Worchester, Springfield, for example). It's not fair. I think we could do without these people: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...arL/story.html .

I don't know why we can't call a spade a spade. It has nothing to do with anything personal.

[logongst]

LeVeque Tower> The Indiana, Cleveland posters mucking up this thread.