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Thanks for the replies so far.
Here's how I look at this in terms of how I think about vacations.
If we decide, for example, to go to Chicago for a week we can pretty easily determine "what's open" and what's happening in the city during the time period we'll be there. And we know there's a million other things to do that don't need specific scheduling and there's wide latitude to pivot if one thing pans out poorly. If we went expecting the White Sox to be playing home games and, alas, they aren't, that's our fault for not checking first, not the city's fault.
I don't know what the equivalent to that is for a cruise vacation. I mean, I can certainly learn about the amenities of various vessels, and the pricing structure, but there's no real way to know if a particular ship is functioning at 100% if that makes sense? Like if staffing is up to par, or if all amenities are 'open' so to speak?
ETA: The port visits and activities are of moderate appeal to me overall. Less so in the Caribbean, more so in areas that I suppose have not great weather for shipboard time. And I've done 2 extensive land/sea trips in Alaska so that place is covered.
Last edited by rokuremote; 06-29-2023 at 10:24 AM..
Thanks for the replies so far.
Here's how I look at this in terms of how I think about vacations.
If we decide, for example, to go to Chicago for a week we can pretty easily determine "what's open" and what's happening in the city during the time period we'll be there. And we know there's a million other things to do that don't need specific scheduling and there's wide latitude to pivot if one thing pans out poorly. If we went expecting the White Sox to be playing home games and, alas, they aren't, that's our fault for not checking first, not the city's fault.
I don't know what the equivalent to that is for a cruise vacation. I mean, I can certainly learn about the amenities of various vessels, and the pricing structure, but there's no real way to know if a particular ship is functioning at 100% if that makes sense? Like if staffing is up to par, or if all amenities are 'open' so to speak?
ETA: The port visits and activities are of moderate appeal to me overall. Less so in the Caribbean, more so in areas that I suppose have not great weather for shipboard time. And I've done 2 extensive land/sea trips in Alaska so that place is covered.
I'm not sure there is an equivalent. I've never come across amenities not open. On our cruise, during sea days it wasn't really warm enough to swim so those who swam were in the indoor pool or outdoor hot tubs but all the pools were open.
I'm not sure what you mean about port visits being of moderate appeal. Are you going on the cruise more for the shipboard experience? I personally don't spend that kind of money for the ship experience itself so I can't relate. For me the cruise is all about where it's taking me.
But circumstances are such that the ease of booking a cruise is attractive right now. We usually plan our vacations from scratch. We've done one AI vacation and it was generally positive (low-lift effort to book it, minimal nickel-and-diming, ability to go off-campus).
We'd be considering a mid/upper cruise line, not a small ship or river cruise, just an above average either Mexico or Caribbean itinerary.
My main concern/question is--and it's hard to tell from the anecdotal stories I read here--it seems like the industry has shifted (post-COVID) firmly in the direction of paid upgrades, for food, bev, and other on-board amenities, coupled with a neglect and "downgrading" of the included amenities. in other words, increased nickel-and-diming. And also a persistent staff shortage leading to a more cattle-call vibe on board.
Cruise Critic seems to be a bit of a booster site, and less helpful for first-timers.
Am I off base in my thinking?
We first cruised in 1992 on the old Costa Riviera on a cruise to Alaska. Alaska was great. However, the ship was mediocre and much more suited for a Caribbean/Mediterranean cruise than Alaska. However, it was free through Diner's Club points so overall, it was OK. We swore that we would never cruise again.
However, a friend suggested a Mexican Riviera cruise on Carnival in 2018, so we took one out of San Diego in 2019. We had a great time, even though we are not the target market for Carnival. We did the things we liked to do while others obviously were there for the party.
Since the restart, we have been on four cruises - Royal Caribbean, Holland America, Celebrity, and Norwegian, all are in the mass market or premium classes.
Here are my takes:
Have there been cutbacks on food and services? I would say that there are certain items that they have cut back on in the dining areas. They reduced the size of menus and limited some of the more premium items like lobster. However, there is still a good variety of food, generally well prepared and usually good service on most of the lines.
As for service, it is really dependent on the like. It seems to me that the cruise brands owned by the Royal Caribbean group (Royal Caribbean and Celebrity) have pretty much recovered and seem to have adequate staff. The Carnival lines seem to be getting there quickly. The Norwegian ship I was on was down 100 employees and service reflected it. I think that the cruise lines that took care of their long-time employees during the pandemic have done pretty well recovering. The lines that don't lost a lot of employees and with take a couple of years to recover.
I do not see a lot of "nickle and diming" on HAL and Celebrity as they are more premium lines. Celebrity was the best in that area. To me, it does not bother me as I do NOT buy anything on a cruise ship more than occasional t-shirt.
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Cruise Critic is a good source of information on various cruise ships. I think that their "EXPERT" reviews are pretty worthless. However, the READER reviews are fairly indicative of what I have experienced. Do realize one thing. I looked at the reviews for the NCL cruise in July 2022 before booking a February 2023 cruise. I thought that the USER reviews were generally very favorable. However, they made significant staff cuts and pay reductions in December 2022 that saw the cruise rating plummet. Had I not booked so early, I would have chosen to book a Celebrity cruise instead.
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I have been booking a lot of travel lately and I find that we are booking a lot more cruises than I have planned to. Why is that?
In the past, we liked to fly into cities for a week vacation. We would rent a car, stay in a hotel, and do day trips around that city.
In the current environment, what city do you really want to visit as an older person - SF, LA, Seattle, Chicago, NYC, etc? I do not feel comfortable traveling to those cities or using mass transit.
Car rental rates are 2.5x times higher than in 2019 for the same time periods. The old "use a local office away from the airport" trick that worked so well pre-pandemic does not work well.
Affordable hotels are a lot harder to find. And when you do, you might find out that the management of the property has sold out and is renting many of its rooms to house the homeless OR immigrants OR FEMA folks which diminishes the safety/comfort of the property.
It is in this environment that cruising looks like a screaming bargain, especially if you can travel in the off-season.
I'm not sure there is an equivalent. I've never come across amenities not open. On our cruise, during sea days it wasn't really warm enough to swim so those who swam were in the indoor pool or outdoor hot tubs but all the pools were open.
I'm not sure what you mean about port visits being of moderate appeal. Are you going on the cruise more for the shipboard experience? I personally don't spend that kind of money for the ship experience itself so I can't relate. For me the cruise is all about where it's taking me.
I have come across amenities that were not available.
On Royal Caribbean, we were promised Broadway-style shows in the brochures. They were replaced by comedians, jugglers and other acts that were no all that great.
On Holland America, they advertised a Microsoft Windows computer experience and cooking demonstrations in the brochures and neither was available. Also, hours at certain restaurants were limited.
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Personally, the port visits are NOT the reason I go on a cruise; it is the ship experience except perhaps for Alaska.
In the Caribbean, I have always found the ports to be a mixed bag. There are some that we have loved (Curacao, San Juan), some that we disliked (St. Lucia, Cabo) and many are a mixed bag.
I have come across amenities that were not available.
On Royal Caribbean, we were promised Broadway-style shows in the brochures. They were replaced by comedians, jugglers and other acts that were no all that great.
On Holland America, they advertised a Microsoft Windows computer experience and cooking demonstrations in the brochures and neither was available. Also, hours at certain restaurants were limited.
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Personally, the port visits are NOT the reason I go on a cruise; it is the ship experience except perhaps for Alaska.
In the Caribbean, I have always found the ports to be a mixed bag. There are some that we have loved (Curacao, San Juan), some that we disliked (St. Lucia, Cabo) and many are a mixed bag.
We’ve cruised 4 times and all have been in Europe. No desire to cruise the Caribbean. Would love to do a Galapagos cruise but wow $$$$$.
We’ve cruised 4 times and all have been in Europe. No desire to cruise the Caribbean. Would love to do a Galapagos cruise but wow $$$$$.
Yes, if I remember, they were about $7000 pp to start on Celebrity. Do realize that you are on a ship carrying 16-100 people and that unlike many cruises, it is an all inclusive that includes WiFi, drinks packages, gratuities and the like. It is a once in a lifetime type of trip.
I'm not sure what you mean about port visits being of moderate appeal. Are you going on the cruise more for the shipboard experience? I personally don't spend that kind of money for the ship experience itself so I can't relate. For me the cruise is all about where it's taking me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01
Personally, the port visits are NOT the reason I go on a cruise; it is the ship experience except perhaps for Alaska.
In the Caribbean, I have always found the ports to be a mixed bag. There are some that we have loved (Curacao, San Juan), some that we disliked (St. Lucia, Cabo) and many are a mixed bag.
Yeah one might just tell me why bother cruising if the port calls aren't that much of an attraction--and you wouldn't be totally wrong. But the shipboard experience is what I would be more focused on, kind of like a land-bound AI resort with an occasional trip off-campus.
From what I'm gathering from the comments here it sounds like the scale-back of amenities and service levels hasn't been as drastic as perhaps I've read about anecdotally.
Yeah one might just tell me why bother cruising if the port calls aren't that much of an attraction--and you wouldn't be totally wrong. But the shipboard experience is what I would be more focused on, kind of like a land-bound AI resort with an occasional trip off-campus.
From what I'm gathering from the comments here it sounds like the scale-back of amenities and service levels hasn't been as drastic as perhaps I've read about anecdotally.
My retired life largely consists of providing a hot meal several elderly neighbors and a LOT of time on the internet as well as 10-13 weeks of travel a year.
Going on a cruise provides me with great food (buffet, MDR, and other venues) and service at a fraction of the price of a lot of land destination. There is also a lot of entertainment and people watching that I do not get in Southern Arizona. Also, I get to meet dozens of friends from around the world. If some of the cruise ports are interesting, that is an additional bonus. Generally, when we get off of the ship, we have a short list of places we would like to walk to and check out.
As for the cutbacks, they don't bother me too much as I do not care about having someone clean my room 2x per day. It has been ages since I have been to a LAND-BASED hotel that still offers daily housekeeping service. Most either don't do it or they offer bonus points if you decline daily housekeeping.
I know that some people are up in arms that they cannot get 25 lobsters on lobster night on Royal Caribbean/ Celebrity for free but that does not bother me. Between my DW and I, we generally order three appetizers, three entrees and three desserts for dinner on most nights.
Personally, the only line that I would strongly avoid is Norwegian.
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One unrelated comment.
If you are going on a Royal Caribbean or Celebrity cruise and you need to fly to the cruise port, look at booking your airfare through Royal Caribbean as the rates are generally excellent and for us, was cheaper than Southwest.
The airfares offered by Carnival and related cruise lines are competitive with other online sellers, but not discount.
On Norwegian, the rates are not competitive and the flight times that they offer are terrible based on some of our friends' experiences.
My retired life largely consists of providing a hot meal several elderly neighbors and a LOT of time on the internet as well as 10-13 weeks of travel a year.
Going on a cruise provides me with great food (buffet, MDR, and other venues) and service at a fraction of the price of a lot of land destination. There is also a lot of entertainment and people watching that I do not get in Southern Arizona. Also, I get to meet dozens of friends from around the world. If some of the cruise ports are interesting, that is an additional bonus. Generally, when we get off of the ship, we have a short list of places we would like to walk to and check out.
As for the cutbacks, they don't bother me too much as I do not care about having someone clean my room 2x per day. It has been ages since I have been to a LAND-BASED hotel that still offers daily housekeeping service. Most either don't do it or they offer bonus points if you decline daily housekeeping.
I know that some people are up in arms that they cannot get 25 lobsters on lobster night on Royal Caribbean/ Celebrity for free but that does not bother me. Between my DW and I, we generally order three appetizers, three entrees and three desserts for dinner on most nights.
Personally, the only line that I would strongly avoid is Norwegian.
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One unrelated comment.
If you are going on a Royal Caribbean or Celebrity cruise and you need to fly to the cruise port, look at booking your airfare through Royal Caribbean as the rates are generally excellent and for us, was cheaper than Southwest.
The airfares offered by Carnival and related cruise lines are competitive with other online sellers, but not discount.
On Norwegian, the rates are not competitive and the flight times that they offer are terrible based on some of our friends' experiences.
Thank you, your posts have been particularly helpful.
"Cruise Critic is a good source of information on various cruise ships. I think that their "EXPERT" reviews are pretty worthless. However, the READER reviews are fairly indicative of what I have experienced. Do realize one thing. I looked at the reviews for the NCL cruise in July 2022 before booking a February 2023 cruise. I thought that the USER reviews were generally very favorable. However, they made significant staff cuts and pay reductions in December 2022 that saw the cruise rating plummet. Had I not booked so early, I would have chosen to book a Celebrity cruise instead."
I also think Cruise Critic forums are super helpful in getting a feel for what things are like on a particular cruise / ship. You'll get so much detailed information for any question you ask. You'll have people who just went on that cruise who can tell you what was open, what they thought, what they liked, didn't like. There are lots of frequent cruisers who love sharing their knowledge and experiences.
I've only done mainstream cruises and just Caribbean cruises (which beside the Bahama when I've looked are usually the most economical ones you can do from the US). The lines I've traveled on are Carnival, NCL, and Royal Caribbean (usually the bigger ships). And different lines to me were more similar than different in experience.
My dad as he got older really loved cruising, especially given he could get his own balcony. He liked to look at the ocean. He liked it that he could do as much or as little as he wanted and had the energy for. For going with a larger group he liked it that all meals were included (main dining room). It was all pretty sweet for him: various family visiting him on the balcony, mom could be out and about while he took a nap, he could go to activities if he had the energy, he'd connect with any family he hadn't seen during the day at dinner in the main dining room. He'd usually do a show each evening.
Probably one of the most interesting thing (to me) I've done on a cruise, have done this twice -- once on Carnival and once on Royal Caribbean was take the behind the scenes tour (costs you some dollars), but it was fascinating for me to see the galleys, the bottom of the ship with so much activity going on, the crew quarters, and yes fun little perks like being on the bridge and talking to the captain (lots more too, but those were my favorite parts). It's truly amazing how they turn these ships around so fast and what a great job they do of feeding so many people so quickly and so well.
And on food, maybe if you are a foodie and are expecting food like you get at your very favorite restaurant at home or are quite picky it may not be for you. But if you're like us, you are impressed with very decent stuff served to so many people so quickly. And if you like listening to music, there's a lot and so many different kinds of music. I've always been quite impressed with the quality of the musicians and the friendliness of all the staff.
I'll usually check out the shows and find them decent, entertaining. But our local rep or a Broadway traveling show in your hometown will be better for sure (But you pay $50 to $120 pp for the tickets at home too). Entertainment is typically included. Sometimes their might be one or two upcharge events, but we've never done those.
I'm not a drinker or a gambler, but these things and prices sort of subsidize costs of other things on ships that have that, so hence Royal Caribbean and other mainstream cruise lines are going to be way less expensive than say Disney that doesn't have the gambling on board.
We find that we don't do the upgraded dining and are fine with that and don't see the need or feel any pressure to do that. We find the buffets and main dining room to be really good. We find a cruise way less expensive than flying and staying at any Caribbean island or Mexican resort area (literally from where we live even getting a nice balcony room on the ship is about 1/2 the cost or doing a Caribbean or Mexican land based trip from where we live). I did a four night / three day trip to Key West where I flew in and stayed at a Best Western (a nice one, but still it's a basic chain motel). It was decently located and walking distance to the all popular Duval street. But OMG my overall costs were almost exactly the same as a a seven day cruise balcony room on one of the Royal Caribbean Mega ships including air and one night hotel. This includes tours, everything.
I personally, though, like the land experience more than the cruise experiences. But I don't care that much for AI either. I'm the only one in my family and extended family that really isn't all that into cruising. Ships make be feel a little confined, even the huge ones. Others in my family are up to do a cruise anytime.
I also think with so many people in close quarters, risks of things like norovirus are way higher on the cruise than most types of vacations. The risks aren't so great that it would IMHO be a reason not to go, but maybe if you have some underlying health issues it might be something to consider.
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