Revisiting Baywood (Bear, Lewes, Millsboro: for sale, real estate, 2013)

[RFinDE]

Hi all,

Getting closer to our move to Delaware. Have engaged realtors both here at our current location (sell) and someone in the Sussex County market (buy), as well as a mortgage broker.

Wanted to revisit with y'all the idea of buying in the Baywood community in Millsboro/Long Neck (saw some older threads; nothing recent) and get some opinions. Baywood is not for many because of the land leases there, of course.

But we've started to warm up to the idea because of what the community offers in exchange and what we're looking for.

Do you think we're good candidates to make this move (makes sense/we haven't completely lost our minds ), given the following?

1. Likely will be a low-ish mortgage based on our projected equity from selling and the prices of the homes we're looking at
2. Retirement eligible, but willing to keep working a little while longer and whittle away the remaining mortgage balance
3. We're in our 60s; we don't plan on moving again
4. Most of the listings are saying land lease of 40 years; one says 100 years (so they will outlive us)
5. No children to be heirs of a real estate asset diminished by having a land lease attached to it
6. Upon retiring, can dedicate one income stream to the monthly land lease (listings are saying ~1K or so)

There's always the specter of lease escalation every x number of years, but we're not extraganvant people and believe we can weather not-too-crazy increases given our post-retirement financials.

We definitely love the incredibly beautiful surroundings, 24-hour security presence (including night patrols during the wee hours), grounds maintenance [snow removal, common area landscaping, etc.], no HOA fees, wonderful amenities (clubhouse, community center, walking paths, private beach and bay inlet, boat ramps, golf course/restaurant resident discounts, etc.) (not that we'll necessarily avail of all of them). There's a Homeowners Association, but it's not the traditional fee-imposing, covenant/regulations-enforcement kind of HOA. It's more of a community social organization that plans lots of fun events and such that residents can join for a modest membership fee. Looks like it's active and well-run and many families have joined.

Would love any and all opinions, especially current residents. Thanks!

[nuts2uiam]

DH and I moved here in 2013 after having many of the same discussions you are. The idea that you keep your money in the bank and enjoy the amenities at a reduced price was a foreign one to us coming from Long Island. The site is Beautiful and the saying the grounds are well maintained is a gross understatement. They are like a botanical garden. However, we decided against Baywood's for the following 3 reasons.

The number of homes for sale in the community. This is still true in my opinion today. There are a number of homes that are currently on the market in that community - I counted 20. While we don't have kids and there is no guarantee that a fee simple home would sell quickly, we also considered that if one of us were to get sick or pass away, the remaining person might want to downsize.

The "remoteness" it. While in our opinion, it was part of the charm, it also was part of the reason we decided against it. In fairness the area has grown since we looked, but to us it still seems a bit too far to have to go for a container of milk for us. Bear in mind however, that we are spoiled by Long Island where every thing was close.

Last reason, we are beach people and while we fell in love with the community, we decided it was too far from the beach for us to have to travel on Rt 24 to get to Route 1.


Now this was just recently approved preliminarily - FYI
https://www.capegazette.com/article/...pproval/259994

Good luck, I am sharing the reasons we decided against it, that said, I can see the reasons you might be in favor of it.

[jmking]

Within a couple of miles from Baywood there's at least 3 grocery stores, Harris Teater, Giant, and Weise? Many restaurants and stores. Not to mention Rehoboth with all its shopping etc...just a few extra miles. Not far from Dewey beach, Lewes. Not even that far from OC Maryland, Finwick Island etc....My issue with Baywood is the ground rent. Hitching your wagon to someone else's land is an issue with me. However the stick built homes are nice and it does appear to have plenty for sale because of ground rent I'm sure. Apparently they do sit on the market for some time. It appears that there are townhouses, condos, and single family homes for sale. If I was serious in buying one of these homes I would focus on getting the absolutely the lowest price one can get. If that was not possible, I would look elsewhere. A friend of mine works there and told me about a year ago those homes are not selling well. Now, it must be worse.

[RFinDE]

Originally Posted by nuts2uiam

DH and I moved here in 2013 after having many of the same discussions you are. The idea that you keep your money in the bank and enjoy the amenities at a reduced price was a foreign one to us coming from Long Island. The site is Beautiful and the saying the grounds are well maintained is a gross understatement. They are like a botanical garden. However, we decided against Baywood's for the following 3 reasons.

The number of homes for sale in the community. This is still true in my opinion today. There are a number of homes that are currently on the market in that community - I counted 20. While we don't have kids and there is no guarantee that a fee simple home would sell quickly, we also considered that if one of us were to get sick or pass away, the remaining person might want to downsize.

The "remoteness" it. While in our opinion, it was part of the charm, it also was part of the reason we decided against it. In fairness the area has grown since we looked, but to us it still seems a bit too far to have to go for a container of milk for us. Bear in mind however, that we are spoiled by Long Island where every thing was close.

Last reason, we are beach people and while we fell in love with the community, we decided it was too far from the beach for us to have to travel on Rt 24 to get to Route 1.


Now this was just recently approved preliminarily - FYI
https://www.capegazette.com/article/...pproval/259994

Good luck, I am sharing the reasons we decided against it, that said, I can see the reasons you might be in favor of it.

Thank you! This is very helpful. Some of what you've mentioned align with what we're looking for during this adventure of researching and finally deciding where to live. Much appreciated!

[RFinDE]

Originally Posted by jmking

Within a couple of miles from Baywood there's at least 3 grocery stores, Harris Teater, Giant, and Weise? Many restaurants and stores. Not to mention Rehoboth with all its shopping etc...just a few extra miles. Not far from Dewey beach, Lewes. Not even that far from OC Maryland, Finwick Island etc....My issue with Baywood is the ground rent. Hitching your wagon to someone else's land is an issue with me. However the stick built homes are nice and it does appear to have plenty for sale because of ground rent I'm sure. Apparently they do sit on the market for some time. It appears that there are townhouses, condos, and single family homes for sale. If I was serious in buying one of these homes I would focus on getting the absolutely the lowest price one can get. If that was not possible, I would look elsewhere. A friend of mine works there and told me about a year ago those homes are not selling well. Now, it must be worse.

All great things to think about, thanks! I did a Google Maps search of nearby shopping options adjacent to the community and saw the Giant Food and Harris Teeter less than 10 minutes away, so that's good (they look relatively new; guessing they came into the area with the last 2-3 years).

As far as the house pricing in Baywood, we may end up being cash buyers or have an extremely low mortgage we can pay off relatively quickly. It seems the HOA fees/other costs in some neighboring communities (also very nice) start to approach the cost of the land lease (but understand the difference vs. fee simple, which is significant in important ways). We'll see. So far, we think it might work for us, but we're also looking at other properties around Sussex County.

[nuts2uiam]

Originally Posted by RFinMD

Thank you! This is very helpful. Some of what you've mentioned align with what we're looking for during this adventure of researching and finally deciding where to live. Much appreciated!

I have to say you seem to be doing all the due diligence before buying, which we find hard to believe people many don't seem to do. We actually spent time here in every month but Jan figuring that Feb 1, was not much different. It really is a beautiful community and I have been there in the past for luncheons. As I said, it has built up since we started our hunting, much like the rest of the area.

[RFinDE]

Originally Posted by nuts2uiam

I have to say you seem to be doing all the due diligence before buying, which we find hard to believe people many don't seem to do. We actually spent time here in every month but Jan figuring that Feb 1, was not much different. It really is a beautiful community and I have been there in the past for luncheons. As I said, it has built up since we started our hunting, much like the rest of the area.

Thanks again! Agree -- so important to invest the time in learning about a place (and talking to awesome people like you and others in this forum and hearing first-hand what it's really like there). After all, for us, the home we will be purchasing will likely be the last one and we need to get it right. To that end, we're coming this weekend to see some homes in person that we've liked and our local agent in that area has been sending information about. We're very excited!!

[jmking]

Originally Posted by RFinMD

All great things to think about, thanks! I did a Google Maps search of nearby shopping options adjacent to the community and saw the Giant Food and Harris Teeter less than 10 minutes away, so that's good (they look relatively new; guessing they came into the area with the last 2-3 years).

As far as the house pricing in Baywood, we may end up being cash buyers or have an extremely low mortgage we can pay off relatively quickly. It seems the HOA fees/other costs in some neighboring communities (also very nice) start to approach the cost of the land lease (but understand the difference vs. fee simple, which is significant in important ways). We'll see. So far, we think it might work for us, but we're also looking at other properties around Sussex County.

My wife and her girl friends are going to Baywood today for lunch at Baywood's restaurant which is very nice, good food. Baywood also has a 18 hole golf course, very nice. However, that golf course is not free even for residents. I personally like Bayside in Fenwick Island, Del, which is about 15+ miles south of Baywood near the Maryland border and sits on the Assawoman Bay with a panoramic view of Ocean City, Maryland, in which the Atlantic ocean is on the other side of. You own the property in Bayside with plenty of amenities, even outdoor concerts performed by famous musicians. Harris Teater and several restaurants are just outside of Bayside. This community also has townhomes, condos, single family homes. However, I believe the HOA is around 500-1000 bucks a month.

https://www.livebayside.com/


About 8 years ago my wife and I where seriously looking at a much more affordable place down along the coast about 60 miles south of Baywood, just over the Maryland border in Virginia called Captains Cove near Chincoteague Island. Several amenities, low HOA, lower cost homes, 9 hole golf course, directly on the inlets, close to the ocean. Our issue with it is that it is much more remote. But, like Delaware, the taxes are decent.

https://captscove.com/

[nuts2uiam]

Originally Posted by RFinMD

Thanks again! Agree -- so important to invest the time in learning about a place (and talking to awesome people like you and others in this forum and hearing first-hand what it's really like there). After all, for us, the home we will be purchasing will likely be the last one and we need to get it right. To that end, we're coming this weekend to see some homes in person that we've liked and our local agent in that area has been sending information about. We're very excited!!

Such fun. Should be a nice weekend too. Mid 80's maybe some storms in the PM. Good luck in your search.

[nuts2uiam]

So how did it go? Just last night I heard someone here talking about having a great dinner in the Haywood's clubhouse and I thought about your recent trip.