Another historic downtown building to be demolished (Detroit, Troy: fit in, real estate)

[usroute10]

The Detroit News is reporting that the City of Detroit is seeking to get the Park Avenue Building - a 12-story office building designed by Albern Kahn, demolished. The building is located on Grand Circus Park, a part of Downtown Detroit that is slowing revitalizing, and is located within the section of Downtown where 5 news neighborhoods will be built around a new Hockey Arena.

Detroit targets historic Park Avenue Building for demolition | The Detroit News

[detwahDJ]

I hate to see that stuff go - with other real wasteland in abundance, why should destruction of historically significant and irreplaceable structures be the desirable end-all? Preserving old architecture like this will make Detroit unique.
Well, profit-above-all-else won't end any time soon.

So the building is "open, vacant and dangerous" according to the people who want it demolished for “a fresh, modern neighborhood anchored by a new public green space”. Since when is "fresh and modern" always better?
Here's an idea, why not demolish the Guardian for something "fresher and moderner".

[Retroit]

Originally Posted by detwahDJ

Well, profit-above-all-else won't end any time soon.

Profit? Who is making a profit? The guy that bought the building lost money on it. No one wants to buy it because there is no profit-making potential for it. The city will lose money by demolishing it. And the city is unprofitably in $20 billion debt.

And yet you still try to make it into some type of anti-capitalist message. Maybe if the city had been run by capitalist-minded individuals instead of socialists, they could have attracted more profit-seeking entrepreneurs into the city to save buildings like this.

Rant over. As for the building: unfortunately Detroit had an excess of buildings that could not be occupied and maintained (due to no profit in it). Unfortunately, many of those buildings had/have to be demolished.

Ideally, all historic buildings would be under some type of historic protection. Anyone buying those buildings would be prevented from sitting on it for speculation. They would be required to maintain it by code enforcement before they reach an unsalvageable state. The city would actively try to market these buildings toward entrepreneurs. No new buildings could be built until all the historic buildings have been occupied and the city had a high occupancy rate (to prevent overbuild). Casinos should have been required to occupy and maintain occupancy in existing buildings. New casino licenses should be granted (at a controlled pace) to those who would place them in existing buildings. The city should eliminate the city income tax which deters businesses from locating here. Etc.

A lot could be done to help preserve Detroit. Unfortunately, Detroit is in, or at least was in, the hands of people who only cared about fighting the evil white suburban capitalists. This is what happens when you bite the hand that feeds you.

2nd rant over.

[zthatzmanz28]

I am willing to bet the purchaser will make all her money put out for demolition and then some with TAX REBATES and TAX CREDITS. Someone just let the building sit long enough to clear the historic waivers and deemed BEYOND SALVAGING and create an opportunity for a buyer to acquire and still make it financially profitable.

[detwahDJ]

Originally Posted by Retroit

Profit? Who is making a profit? The guy that bought the building lost money on it. No one wants to buy it because there is no profit-making potential for it. The city will lose money by demolishing it. And the city is unprofitably in $20 billion debt.

And yet you still try to make it into some type of anti-capitalist message. Maybe if the city had been run by capitalist-minded individuals instead of socialists, they could have attracted more profit-seeking entrepreneurs into the city to save buildings like this.

Rant over. As for the building: unfortunately Detroit had an excess of buildings that could not be occupied and maintained (due to no profit in it). Unfortunately, many of those buildings had/have to be demolished.

Ideally, all historic buildings would be under some type of historic protection. Anyone buying those buildings would be prevented from sitting on it for speculation. They would be required to maintain it by code enforcement before they reach an unsalvageable state. The city would actively try to market these buildings toward entrepreneurs. No new buildings could be built until all the historic buildings have been occupied and the city had a high occupancy rate (to prevent overbuild). Casinos should have been required to occupy and maintain occupancy in existing buildings. New casino licenses should be granted (at a controlled pace) to those who would place them in existing buildings. The city should eliminate the city income tax which deters businesses from locating here. Etc.

A lot could be done to help preserve Detroit. Unfortunately, Detroit is in, or at least was in, the hands of people who only cared about fighting the evil white suburban capitalists. This is what happens when you bite the hand that feeds you.

2nd rant over.

Feel better now?
I am not "anti-capitalist" - take a breather on the fainting couch. Sounds like you are still playing that old RW tune "city government and black folk chased business out of the city" rather than anything your outsourcing corporate heroes might have done. I have shown how the auto and other industries, only some of which were ever in the city proper, just no longer need Detroit residents as workers, and this has been the growing trend over decades. All the smaller businesses which happened to be inside the city were auto-related. For instance, my uncle owned a restaurant which was totally dependent upon workers in nearby shops. These are the business types that you and the wacko Right maintain were "driven out by city government and lazy Detroiters".
Crime and blight have followed of course, but your predictable RW rants are still that old reliable but self-validating saw of "lazy Detroiters" are happy in their poverty and don't want jobs". You really need to give up on that deplorable sentiment.


You are saying that the new development is not about profit?? The developers plan to lose money on it? Seriously? The "guy who bought it" lost money? Doesn't sound too business savvy.
Or, did I say somewhere that the city should own the building? Oh, it would be nice to have it preserved as a historic site with ordinances governing its maintenance, but it still could certainly be under private ownership.

You make weird statements which need explanation, like "the city will lose money by demolishing it". How does that even apply? Why aren't the developers doing the razing? "The guy that bought the building" is doing the razing is he not? If not, he should.
If the city does it there should be a payback.
And, one wonders why you totally skew my point that it is the developer whom I wish would try saving, incorporating, and repurposing it in their plan. Yeah - so "anti-capitalist".
There is nothing ambiguous or "anti-capitalist" about my previous statement, but yet you need to find something like that anyway. Get a grip.

Since you missed it I'll explain again - I just hate to see such irreplaceable architecture disappear, and feel that preserving it, if possible, would be beneficial to Detroit in the long run.
Hard concept to grasp, without injecting my "socialist agenda" into it?

[Spartanguy]

Originally Posted by Retroit

Profit? Who is making a profit? The guy that bought the building lost money on it. No one wants to buy it because there is no profit-making potential for it. The city will lose money by demolishing it. And the city is unprofitably in $20 billion debt.

And yet you still try to make it into some type of anti-capitalist message. Maybe if the city had been run by capitalist-minded individuals instead of socialists, they could have attracted more profit-seeking entrepreneurs into the city to save buildings like this.

Really who buys buildings/land with the intention of not making a profit? Ever hear of property speculation, what could be more capitalist that? It's not the biggest secret that Sachs has been sitting these properties for years waiting for a pay day to come along. A 2002 rerun of an 1990 Crains about downtown vacancy all but confirms it. The area around the Fox has been talked about as a location for a Wings arena for the better part of decade. So this has something to with profit. The problem isn't profit, other building owner have sought profit by improving the neighborhood. Mr. Sachs has sought profit by neglecting his property waiting for someone to pay him for the land/buildings.

Ralph Sachs, a Troy attorney, bought the Charlevoix and Park Avenue buildings on Park Avenue in 1981 as investments, said Neil Davis, a Byron W. Trerice Co. broker who represents Sachs.

Sachs has no plans for a major rehab of either building, although he would renovate space if prospective tenants wanted it, Davis said.

Is Sachs — who owns other real estate in Detroit, including a 7,000-square-foot office building near Seven Mile Road and Woodward — a speculator?

Said Davis, “Let’s just say he’s a good buyer.”

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...urvey-shows-46

[Bimmerfanboy]

Originally Posted by detwahDJ

I hate to see that stuff go - with other real wasteland in abundance, why should destruction of historically significant and irreplaceable structures be the desirable end-all? Preserving old architecture like this will make Detroit unique.
Well, profit-above-all-else won't end any time soon.

So the building is "open, vacant and dangerous" according to the people who want it demolished for “a fresh, modern neighborhood anchored by a new public green space”. Since when is "fresh and modern" always better?
Here's an idea, why not demolish the Guardian for something "fresher and moderner".

Here's a better idea, if you love these historic structures why don't you buy them and renovate them? You'd do a great service for the city by making these beautiful structures viable again.

If you don't have the money to then please don't complain. Don't act like you're on a moral high ground all the time. Put your money where your mouth is. Also I think you should take a couple Economics courses to learn how the world works.

[Spartanguy]

Originally Posted by Seatown1

Here's a better idea, if you love these historic structures why don't you buy them and renovate them? You'd do a great service for the city by making these beautiful structures viable again.

If you don't have the money to then please don't complain. Don't act like you're on a moral high ground all the time. Put your money where your mouth is. Also I think you should take a couple Economics courses to learn how the world works.

Fine. Where you do you live? I want to buy properties around you, let them go to crap, leave them vacant and open to trespass. And when you complain, I can let tell you to put your money where your mouth is and take an economics course.

[MS313]

Originally Posted by Spartanguy

Fine. Where you do you live? I want to buy properties around you, let them go to crap, leave them vacant and open to trespass. And when you complain, I can let tell you to put your money where your mouth is and take an economics course.

Rep Point .

[detwahDJ]

Originally Posted by Seatown1

Here's a better idea, if you love these historic structures why don't you buy them and renovate them? You'd do a great service for the city by making these beautiful structures viable again.

If you don't have the money to then please don't complain. Don't act like you're on a moral high ground all the time. Put your money where your mouth is. Also I think you should take a couple Economics courses to learn how the world works.

If one doesn't have the money, one hasn't the right to complain? Really? IMO a pretty snotty plutocratic attitude on your part. You know about "moral high ground" do you?

So you agree with me that it is "desirable to make these beautiful structures viable again", yet you complain about my saying so. Out of nowhere, another bizarre personal hissyfit on your part. Take a breather.

I don't have the money and I'm not in the business, yet, same as you from some far-flung location, I also have every right to an opinion. How about that?
I'll say it again - I like to see classic architecture in Detroit preserved. This ticks you off, does it??