Can Anyone Tell Me About Wayne State University and Wayne State University Law School? (Detroit: legal, metro)

[gea12345]

Originally Posted by MetsNY

Looking into this law school. I don't know much about it because I'm not from this part of the country. I've been sent items in the mail about it, but don't know anything more other then that it is located in downtown Detroit.

I've heard Detroit has a pretty bad reputation for crime, is it like that in the downtown area? I know the economy is terrible, real estate market has tanked etc, so should it be avoided?

I ask because I'm looking into other areas of the country to attend graduate school. Is the school itself any good? I'm not looking to attend a top tier law school like UMich, Georgetown, etc, etc. Also have considered Michigan State as well.

Any info would be great about both the school and the area. Demographic breakdown, employment opportunities, etc, etc.

Thanks.

The problem with Mr. B. is that he is swallowing you in print....He made his point, briefly, and succinctly, so why drown you non-helpful reams of answers that don't answer your question.

I went to Wayne State University... I lived a couple blocks away. This many years ago, so it might be better. Pros is that rent is cheap, and apartments are big. Cons, was the bad neighborhood was only 4 o5 blocks away.

Heads up, most attorneys will try to disuade from going to law school...I have only met one of 100 who supported my idea of going to law school.

But funnily enough, I bet their children will probably be going to law school or medical school, both fileds where the pros and cons are evenly stacked.

The only thing I would suggest is choose the school that gives you the most money. Or choose a school that is the top 50, since where you go to law school WILL 99 percent of the time dictate your starting salary!!

good luck and have fun!!

[Jimmier]

I would take into account that they dropped it from an already low Tier 3 school to a Tier 4 school in ranking.

Their so called "low tuition" doesn't really mesh with their poor rank.

[ocean2026]

I'm an attorney - went to Indiana Univ and Cal Berkeley. Once every OTHER year, a client will surprise me and ask "Where did you go to law school?" The other 99.99% don't care and came to my office because or word of mouth or whatever. More people have come to my office -just following my dog home than were attracted by my fine education. In other words, if you're going to practice on your own it really doesn't matter what school you go to.

Having said that Wayne State doesn't have any national reputation but it may focus more on state law and prepare you for local practice,than Michigan. On the Michigan board I usually agree with Coldjensens.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by ocean2026

I'm an attorney - went to Indiana Univ and Cal Berkeley. Once every OTHER year, a client will surprise me and ask "Where did you go to law school?" The other 99.99% don't care and came to my office because or word of mouth or whatever. More people have come to my office -just following my dog home than were attracted by my fine education. In other words, if you're going to practice on your own it really doesn't matter what school you go to.

This is probably pretty true for solos who market services to the general populace (criminal defense, family law, etc.). However, if you're trying to get a job at a law firm or with the government, then it becomes an issue. Prospective students should note starting a solo practice without any experience and/or without a client base lined up is a very rough road to hoe. Because our law schools have been producing about three times as many new lawyers as what the market needs each year for at least a decade or two, the market is saturated with upstart young solos hoping to eek out a living in the legal profession.

Many attorneys never find jobs in the field and are never able to work as attorneys, ending up suffering from tremendous mental anguish and massive student loan debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy (making them educated indentured servants). The JD can also decrease their employability in other fields since hiring personnel will regard them as losers and wonder why they are not working as lawyers since naive laymen believe that all lawyers are rich. If you do not find a position within a couple months after you graduate, you could lose the value of your degree entirely since other lawyers will regard you as a loser regardless of your actual ability.

I strongly urge anyone who is seriously considering going to law school to investigate the dark underbelly of the profession. Find the malcontent discussion forums (like JD Underground) and the law school scambuster blogs for a different perspective. It's all true. Even some Harvard graduates are having difficulty finding jobs at large firms (which will be pretty much unavailable to you unless you get into a Top 15 school). If Harvard grads are having a problem, imagine how you will do if you graduate from a no-name school (aka "Third Tier Toilet").

Here's a blog list:

JD Underground -- discussion forum
Exposing the Law School Scam (http://lawschoolscam.blogspot.com/ - broken link)
But I Did Everything Right!
The Jobless Jurisdoctor
Esq. Never
JD Underdog (http://www.blogger.com/%20http://jdunderdog.blogspot.com/ - broken link)
Temporary Attorney: The Sweatshop Edition
Third Tier Reality
The Jobless Jurisdoctor
The Last Ship to Leave Middle Earth
Children of Debt
Big Debt Small Law

[Brucescheldon]

I think the last guy that seems so negative has a hard time because he only relies on his degree.
In this world, no matter what your degree, you always have to sell yourself. Those that do, end up doing well. The ones that are negative are the ones that just don't cut it.
Yes, a degree is a great thing but at the end,you and only you will make the biggest impact on your own success. Harvard may open doors faster than Wayne state, but that is only part of the story.
Harvard will not compensate for a crappy lawyer and wayne state will not hold a kick ass lawyer back.
Peace

[us66]

A friend of mine graduated from WSU Law a few years ago. He said it was better than Cooley, claimed Cooley was a diploma mill and the students sabotaged each other's progress. He's doing mostly public defender work, which pays about what an autoworker or a mailman gets, and he has twice the student loan debt than what his house is worth. Look at the back page of the Metro Times, full of lawyers who are now undercutting themselves on price. The going rate is supposedly $125 an hour in metro Detroit, but lots of lawyers are working for a lot less than that.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Brucescheldon

I think the last guy that seems so negative has a hard time because he only relies on his degree.
In this world, no matter what your degree, you always have to sell yourself. Those that do, end up doing well. The ones that are negative are the ones that just don't cut it.
Yes, a degree is a great thing but at the end,you and only you will make the biggest impact on your own success. Harvard may open doors faster than Wayne state, but that is only part of the story.
Harvard will not compensate for a crappy lawyer and wayne state will not hold a kick ass lawyer back.
Peace

...And if someone knows that they will be a kick-ass lawyer and has the amazing interpersonal skills needed to succeed no matter what then they should feel free to go if it's what they want to do.

But what if you aren't part of that small percentage of the people who have those uber-people skills and drive and ability to overcome the adversity I mentioned? Generalized advice should apply to the vast majority of people who will be attending, not just that tiny percentage of super-people that don't need the advice to begin with.

A Vanderbilt law professor (Herwig Schlunk) conducted a study showing that only small percentage (10% ?) of all law school graduates will obtain a decent return on their educational investment. Another study has shown that only about 54% of all lawyers work in the legal profession, and it's possible to extrapolate that less than 30% of recent law graduates are able to find jobs in the field. Also, the nation has about one lawyer for every 172 people, which seems unsustainable. See:

Fluster Cucked: Statistics suggest that only 53.8% of all lawyers are employed in the legal profession.

Fluster Cucked: Statistics may suggest that less than 30% of new JDs were able to find work in the legal profession over the past 10 years.

Fluster Cucked: 40 Years of Lawyer Overproduction, a Data Table, and 2 Charts

http://jdscam.blogspot.com/

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1497044

[Legal Advisor 2020]

I've practiced law in Michigan for 20 years and Wayne State University Law School is an exceptional law school with 1/2 the tuition expense of private schools of comparable reputation. WSU law alumni are tremendously influential and loyal to their school. They also constitute the largest number of Michigan attorneys designated within the top 5% of their practice area by Thompson Reuters. All of the law schools in Michigan are strong and once you pass the bar it doesn't matter where you went to school. Get your degree, get your license, get practicing!

[Coldjensens]

It is not as terrible as some like to paint it and not as rosy as other do. Jobs at law firms are pretty tough to come by unless you have a book of business, proven marketing skills or top credentials. It has gotten quite a bit better though. When this thread was started in 2009, law firms were paying about what I started at in 1988. It has improved quite a bit, but it is not a great market.



I love the practice for many years, then when I had accomplished all of my professional goals, it became somewhat repetitive, less of a challenge and I grew sick of the nasty atmosphere at law firms. Eventually I cam to hate it so I took a huge pay cut and got out. Transition form law firm partner to in house counsel is a tough one, but one I wish I had made earlier. I am posting this for upcoming lawyers to encourage them to think a lot about overall quality of life, not just stardom, money, prestige etc. The same level of people who used to get out the limo to take me to lunch when I was a partner with a law firm, now pay little attention to me and tell me to stay in my place at times. On the other hand, I work set hours, I vacate when on vacation and rarely work on weekends (rather than almost always). The stress level is about 1/10th and my health has improved dramatically. I no longer get the amazing rush of an amazing cross examination or closing argument, but I no longer sometimes hate my job with passion that is impossible to describe. There is a lot to be said for a Non-GC in house position or a government lawyer job if you can swallow your pride, deflate your ego and learn to budget.

[NOLA101]

Wayne State is a respected local university. The law school is a respected local school. Emphasis on LOCAL.

If you don't want to practice law in Metro Detroit, I wouldn't consider Wayne State.