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Old 01-21-2024, 09:01 PM
 
15,409 posts, read 7,472,574 times
Reputation: 19342

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble99 View Post
How can that be if the debt is higher than the money in circulation?
Money supply and debt are not the same thing and do not really have anything to do with each other. It's much like having a home mortgage of $500,000 and a bank balance of $50,000. You don't have enough cash to pay the mortgage immediately, but you do pay it off over time.
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Old 01-22-2024, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,020 posts, read 14,193,756 times
Reputation: 16745
Nonfacts notwithstanding, dollar bills aren't dollars, aren't money (by law), and aren't worth anything since 1933.
See: Art 1, Sec 8, Sec 10, USCON, Coinage Act of 1792, et seq, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 (Title 12 USC sec 411), HJR 192, June 1933, Gold Reserve Act of 1934, and FICA of 1935.
. . .
That millions of Americans believe otherwise is a tremendous victory for the world's greatest propaganda ministry of the Peoples Democratic Socialist Republics of America.
. . .
MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005
Federal Reserve NOTES (aka "dollar bills") are debt, not money. They are legal tender on obligated parties, like the Federal government. (See: 12 USC Sec 411)

https://web.archive.org/web/20210324...al-tender.aspx
". . .Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
[] FRNs are not redeemable since 1933 (a violation of Title 12 USC Sec 411);
[] Government is therefore bankrupt;
[] FRNs are worthless;
[] FDR confiscated all lawful money (gold coin) in 1933;
[] FRNs are legal tender on obligated parties; *(Federal gov is an obligated party, according to 12 USC Sec. 411)
- and -
[] They are backed by YOUR goods and labor (FICA makes all participants into obligated parties [contributors] on said notes, so they become legal tender). If you have an account and SocSec number, you're a human resource pledged as collateral. Great job, CONgress! Kite bad checks and get the muggles to underwrite them!

Don't you feel much better?
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Old 01-22-2024, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,605 posts, read 9,442,839 times
Reputation: 22946
The US government makes payments on the debt, it will neer been fully paid off.

And the creditors of that debt, aren't dumb enough to demand that full payment, as they know the US would not be able to fulfill such a request. And no one wants to crash the world reserve currency.
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Old 01-22-2024, 06:36 AM
 
15,409 posts, read 7,472,574 times
Reputation: 19342
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Nonfacts notwithstanding, dollar bills aren't dollars, aren't money (by law), and aren't worth anything since 1933.
See: Art 1, Sec 8, Sec 10, USCON, Coinage Act of 1792, et seq, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 (Title 12 USC sec 411), HJR 192, June 1933, Gold Reserve Act of 1934, and FICA of 1935.
. . .
That millions of Americans believe otherwise is a tremendous victory for the world's greatest propaganda ministry of the Peoples Democratic Socialist Republics of America.
. . .
MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005
Federal Reserve NOTES (aka "dollar bills") are debt, not money. They are legal tender on obligated parties, like the Federal government. (See: 12 USC Sec 411)

https://web.archive.org/web/20210324...al-tender.aspx
". . .Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
[] FRNs are not redeemable since 1933 (a violation of Title 12 USC Sec 411);
[] Government is therefore bankrupt;
[] FRNs are worthless;
[] FDR confiscated all lawful money (gold coin) in 1933;
[] FRNs are legal tender on obligated parties; *(Federal gov is an obligated party, according to 12 USC Sec. 411)
- and -
[] They are backed by YOUR goods and labor (FICA makes all participants into obligated parties [contributors] on said notes, so they become legal tender). If you have an account and SocSec number, you're a human resource pledged as collateral. Great job, CONgress! Kite bad checks and get the muggles to underwrite them!

Don't you feel much better?
Federal Reserve notes are actually lawful money.

Last edited by Lizap; 01-23-2024 at 11:03 PM..
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Old 01-22-2024, 08:38 AM
 
18,801 posts, read 8,465,846 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
Some argue the unfunded liabilities (entitlements) are the equivalent of total US assets now-ish.
And some argue that there is no set upper limit on how many USD's can be created.
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Old 01-22-2024, 08:41 AM
 
18,801 posts, read 8,465,846 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
The US government makes payments on the debt, it will neer been fully paid off.

And the creditors of that debt, aren't dumb enough to demand that full payment, as they know the US would not be able to fulfill such a request. And no one wants to crash the world reserve currency.
Sure we could. But why would all those entities owning US debt interest bearing paper all want USD non-interest bearing paper at the same time?
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Old 01-22-2024, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,918 posts, read 6,831,790 times
Reputation: 5476
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
Federal Reserve notes are actually lawful money.
Lol, I was like whatttt? Just because a dollar bill has no "value" doesn't mean it isn't money. That guy must have lots of gold in his house...

Last edited by Lizap; 01-23-2024 at 11:05 PM.. Reason: Deleted prior poster’s comment
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Old 01-22-2024, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,605 posts, read 9,442,839 times
Reputation: 22946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Sure we could. But why would all those entities owning US debt interest bearing paper all want USD non-interest bearing paper at the same time?
Thats the point. There’s numerous reasons why they’ll never call in their loans.

Quote:
China owns around 2.6% of U.S. debt, which it buys because the Chinese yuan is pegged to the dollar. It would be impossible for China to call in all its U.S. debt at once, given the different maturity dates of the U.S. securities that China owns.
https://www.investopedia.com/article...t-how-much.asp
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Old 01-22-2024, 12:54 PM
 
18,801 posts, read 8,465,846 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Thats the point. There’s numerous reasons why they’ll never call in their loans.


https://www.investopedia.com/article...t-how-much.asp
Treasuries are not callable.
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Old 01-22-2024, 01:35 PM
 
1,230 posts, read 989,782 times
Reputation: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
The US government makes payments on the debt, it will neer been fully paid off.

And the creditors of that debt, aren't dumb enough to demand that full payment, as they know the US would not be able to fulfill such a request. And no one wants to crash the world reserve currency.
Where does money go? Who is holding the debt that the government has to pay off?

Is it mostly really rich people or banks that hold the debt that the US has to pay off? Like who are these creditors?
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