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Those videos are interesting and useful. But there is one thing the guy from Toyota said that I wonder about. I'm thinking maybe he is still thinking of the "old days?" He talked about not having a Hybrid if driving under 4G miles a year because the battery won't be properly drained and recharged. My understanding is that this applies to the standard NiCadmium batteries, but not Lithium Ion batteries. I believe the battery in the Hybrids is Lithium, and the battery is not meant to be fully discharged in a hybrid, so is this guy wrong?
This is an opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt:
To drive a just a few miles each day, or even weeks like I do, it makes no sense to have a pluggable or even a non-pluggable hybrid automobile unless I keep both batteries (traction, and the 12-volt accessory) charged. If driving a regular hybrid car (non-pluggable), you still need to service and keep both batteries charged.
I haven't driven my 2012 Corolla for nearly three years already, but I keep the battery charged with an electronic charger/maintainer, and run the engine for 15-minute periods 2 times per day (it's cold where I live at). I replace the 0W-20 synthetic oil once per year. All rechargeable batteries need periodic charging. Top charging and maintenance should be the norm. It is the same for the lithium batteries in our laptops, cameras, metal detectors, and so on. Otherwise the life span of the battery will be shortened.
Maybe someone can help with my understanding (or lack thereof) of Hybrids.
I understand the Plug-In's, once charged, can about about 30 miles or so just on electric, before the gas engine kicks in. But there are NO Plug in's available in my part of FLorida, and am being told the wait is 6 - 9 months or longer!
BUT, my understanding on the straight Hybrid cars is that the batteries are charged by capturing the heat of braking. SO - am I correct that IF I regularly drive less that 10 miles a trip, virtually all my driving will be done using the gas engine, and none using electric? IF that is the case, then an actual Hybrid makes no sense at all for someone who mainly takes short trips?
SOmeone may suggest an EV. The problem there is that, due to the way my house was designed & built, the cost of getting a 220 line to the garage would be quite prohibitive, so I am stuck with 110 for charging.
Thanks
I think it was about $1200 to run a 220 line to my garage but I saved about $250/mo ever since then for the last 3 years using an EV over an ICE car. So it was worth it for us but obviously we drive far more than you.
In addition to our Tesla we have a PHEV BMW X5 45e. My take is the PHEV is just not worth it considering that you have to plug it in so often to get so few miles. Don't get me wrong, I love the X5 but I think the normal X5 40I is still fantastic and almost as fast plus 800 lbs lighter.
I think it was about $1200 to run a 220 line to my garage but I saved about $250/mo ever since then for the last 3 years using an EV over an ICE car. So it was worth it for us but obviously we drive far more than you.
In addition to our Tesla we have a PHEV BMW X5 45e. My take is the PHEV is just not worth it considering that you have to plug it in so often to get so few miles. Don't get me wrong, I love the X5 but I think the normal X5 40I is still fantastic and almost as fast plus 800 lbs lighter.
My take is that it seems "worth it" since it is easy to plug in at home, to get like 20-30 miles (or whatever) of EV operation. That's enough for some people like the OP.
Now if you live in an apartment or somewhere impossible to charge at night, that's different.
Years ago a coworker of mine owned a Ford C-Max PHEV and he commuted to work about 20-30 miles on the battery, then charged it free at work for the trip home, then charged overnight at home. Saved a lot of money.
So it's even easier for someone like the OP, if you are not commuting and only drive around town, a PHEV would seem ideal - drive mostly on the battery on your shorter trips and then use the gas engine for long road trips. He doesn't really need the 200-300 mile range of an EV, and doesn't want to use an EV for road trips. No range anxiety.
My take is that it seems "worth it" since it is easy to plug in at home, to get like 20-30 miles (or whatever) of EV operation. That's enough for some people like the OP.
Now if you live in an apartment or somewhere impossible to charge at night, that's different.
Years ago a coworker of mine owned a Ford C-Max PHEV and he commuted to work about 20-30 miles on the battery, then charged it free at work for the trip home, then charged overnight at home. Saved a lot of money.
So it's even easier for someone like the OP, if you are not commuting and only drive around town, a PHEV would seem ideal - drive mostly on the battery on your shorter trips and then use the gas engine for long road trips. He doesn't really need the 200-300 mile range of an EV, and doesn't want to use an EV for road trips. No range anxiety.
Yeah everybody's situation is different, if I had free charging like your friend, that would push it into the worth it for me. When I compare how many miles I get with my EV when I plug in compared to how many my PHEV gets, it seems the PHEV isn't worth it.
Thanks for the analysis.
As for my driving, while I do drive very little, and almost solely locally, a couple of times a year we'll take a trip of 200-300 miles. We'll often then leave the car parked for 2 weeks or more.
This describes a perfect use case for a PHEV! You'll be rolling in EV on those short local trips, and on those 300 mile drives, there's zero range anxiety. You can expect 500 miles per tankful on something like my Ford Energi. That would be really handy if you were facing an unplanned trip, like hurricane evacuation.
[quote=Coachgns;66000360
Question: When driving a Hybrid, can you set something to have the car operate strictly in electric mode until the battery runs out of juice?[/QUOTE]
My Ford Energi gives me three choices: AUTO, where the car selects its optimum power source; EV ONLY, where the ICE is only used under hard acceleration; and EV LATER, where the larger EV battery is saved for later. When commuting downtown, I might use EV LATER until I hit traffic, and then select EV NOW.
This has been a refreshingly detailed and valid discussion of the quirks of EV ownership. I'm especially happy to see that it hasn't been hijacked by EV-or-else zealots.
For six years, I ran my own experiment in Hybrid vs. PHEV ownership. Our family had two cars, a 2014 Ford C-Max Hybrid and a 2017 Ford C-Max Energi PHEV. Each was driven between fifty and sixty thousand miles over that time. We drove a typical suburban-based schedule, with daily commutes with frequent longer drives. The results: Hybrid, 38 mpg; PHEV, 65mpg overall.
I wasn't expecting the PHEV to be such an overachiever. The EPA tests at fueleconomy.gov showed only a 2 mpg advantage over the Hybrid. But no short-term test will ever show the efficiency potential of PHEVs, because they test intensively over a short period of time. Living with the PHEV, and plugging it in regularly, you use it for every local shopping trip and errand. It's those first miles with a cold engine that consume the most fuel. My car only goes 20 miles on battery power, but guess what - every longer trip starts with those 20 miles, so it adds up. Beyond battery power, the car was capable of 40+ mpg at freeway speeds, so that isn't bad, either.
Both cars were utterly reliable, and wonderfully cheap to own. Only one repair, a coolant seal, plus two 12V accessory batteries, for a grand total of $500. I've sold the Hybrid, but the Energi is a keeper. Based on this real-world experience, I look at the PHEV as the drivetrain of choice. Besides using half the fuel of a conventional ICE, it demands much less battery materials than a full EV.
My Ford Energi gives me three choices: AUTO, where the car selects its optimum power source; EV ONLY, where the ICE is only used under hard acceleration; and EV LATER, where the larger EV battery is saved for later. When commuting downtown, I might use EV LATER until I hit traffic, and then select EV NOW.
My Volt just has 'normal', which is where it runs as pure EV until the battery is depleted... and then 'Hold', which is where it runs the ICE and saves the battery charge for later.
There's also a sport mode, but it can't be used at the same time as Hold.
This has been a refreshingly detailed and valid discussion of the quirks of EV ownership. I'm especially happy to see that it hasn't been hijacked by EV-or-else zealots.
There are none of those. But there are EV owners who will, with years of experience behind them, refute the typical BS claims about EVs that are made on this forum by people with no experience.
Quote:
Based on this real-world experience, I look at the PHEV as the drivetrain of choice. Besides using half the fuel of a conventional ICE, it demands much less battery materials than a full EV.
Based on real world experience, I look at PHEV as an EV with training wheels and the more complex and costly drivetrain, as you're hauling around a fairly heavy battery in order to get any range or power, AND the complete gas drivetrain and fuel tank. I had the best PHEV ever, the Chevy Volt. Loved that car, with it's 45 miles of electric range and the ability to use gas for long trips. Though, with a 9 gallon tank, you really didn't go more than 300 miles total (gas and electric range combined). It was able to go full throttle to it's top speed without the gas engine ever kicking in, and you could choose when the gas engine ran (as southernnaturelover mentioned). But the 16kWh battery (well, it was about 24 kWh, but the top and bottom 20% were held in reserve to cover possible degradation as the battery aged) was a bit heavy and took up room. This is the Volt battery:
My Volt:
While I had the Volt I got a 2020 Bolt full EV for $25k new:
After the first year with the Bolt, we realized that it had become our default errand runner, commuter, AND road trip car. I actually only put 300 miles on the Volt that year.
That's on a road trip in January up to eastern CT. Notice the snow on the ground. it was sub-freezing temps and the road trip was still easy to do. Why? Because in the winter it had a 220 mile range. In the summer, it went over 300:
When you can start each day with that much range, never having to go anywhere to charge or get gas, you realize just how convenient it is. And my home electric rates mean that that "full tank" costs a mere $7.
I've since moved on to a 2023 Bolt EUV as it gives a bit more room inside, vastly better seats (heated AND ventilated!), a sunroof (which was the selling point for me) and I think it looks better. And when all was said and done, it only cost me ~$18k (thanks to GM and the early Bolt battery recall) so it was an easy choice.
It has a slightly lower range than the "regular" Bolt. I've yet to get it over 300 miles (though it's damn close, as you can see):
Though I do better in the winter than before (this is in January after a road trip down to Tennessee at 65 mph):
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