Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You technically don't use Lithium 'up' but it does have a life expectancy of which it can reliably serve a car before it must either be replaced with a newer battery and recycled. It has a predestined period of which it can serve a vehicle which is an overall relatively short period compared to the life expectancy of Lithium itself. Yes it can be repurposed much better than oil can as the recycled batteries can be used to power homes or the electric grid, however; not all oil is used for gasoline, some oil and oil products are also recyclable as well, although I will give you that Lithium is probably the stronger candidate for recycling...still however does not make it renewable, just long lasting.
It appears to take just as long as it takes oil to naturally replenish itself. We have large deposits of oil as well, that doesn't make it renewable, nor does it make Lithium renewable, just long lasting... and technology advancements in drilling has done the same for oil.
If it takes millions of years to naturally replenish itself. We will run out of lithium LONG before our recycling efforts contribute any meaningful restock in supply.
Ignores the fact that LI can be reused almost indefinitely - unlike oil that once is burned, it is gone. Or that the tech already exists to have LI batteries last well past first use.
Also there are already batteries that use other materials other than LI such as NA (Sodium) that is very abundant - https://www.technologyreview.com/202...for-batteries/. Sodium-ion batteries are expected to be in production and use by the end of the year.
Also, there are enough lithium reserves to make every vehicle in the world battery powered even if no technological advancements occur to make them more efficient or other chemistry is used.
So you regularly run out of gas in your gas car because you forget to get gas?
I mean your EV can text you if you forget to plug in.
If the gas tank is near empty when I am ready to leave the house, I can find a gas station in minutes, fill the tank and be on my way. If the BEV is on 1% charge when I am ready to leave the house, I have to plug it in and wait until I have enough charge to make it to a charging station which may not be just minutes away, and then wait for a 30% charge or 50% charge or what have you up to 80% charge if I am going a long way.
I guess you don't see the difference between forgetting to fill up the gas vs. forgetting to plug in the car.
With gas, it's literally 2 minutes to my closest gas station, 5 minutes to fill the tank, and I am ready for any destination. Garage to "on my way" in 7 minutes flat.
With a BEV, I am under the belief that it is going to be substantially longer than that for both phases. I have heard that plugging into a 120 volt source charges something like 10 miles per hour, so to get to a charging station 5 miles away is a 30 minute wait. Yes? No? Am I wrong about that?
If it happens once a year, no big. If it happens once every 2 weeks, do you not see how annoying/frustrating/trying that could become for someone who is very absent-minded?
Last edited by Igor Blevin; 01-02-2024 at 08:33 PM..
The temps suddenly drop to 15-degrees and you have to make a quick, unplanned round-trip
of 200-miles in your EV, LOL.
Just a question - how often do you expect that you will need to drive 200 miles unplanned in very cold weather? Talk about really random corner case.
Why would you think that would have a significant impact for an EV and not an ICE vehicle? Both use more energy in the cold and many ICE have issues when it is that cold. According to studies by DOT, EVs often lose 12% of their range in cold weather, about the same as the 10-15% that ICE loses. The difference is the EV should have a full charge vs the much lower ICE gas level. Also from blink;
Quote:
Do EVs lose range because of how the cold affects the battery? No, according to Consumer Reports. All cars, both gas, and electric struggle in cold weather. The increased amount of energy needed is what drains the battery, not the fact that it’s cold. Any factor that significantly uses more power than normal would affect range.
Also most vehicles in the Nordic countries are EVs now - would not be true if EVs had an issue in the cold.
If the gas tank is near empty when I am ready to leave the house, I can find a gas station in minutes, fill the tank and be on my way. If the BEV is on 1% charge when I am ready to leave the house, I have to plug it in and wait until I have enough charge to make it to a charging station which may not be just minutes away, and then wait for a 30% charge or 50% charge or what have you up to 80% charge if I am going a long way.
I guess you don't see the difference between forgetting to fill up the gas vs. forgetting to plug in the car.
With gas, it's literally 2 minutes to my closest gas station, 5 minutes to fill the tank, and I am ready for any destination. Garage to "on my way" in 7 minutes flat.
With a BEV, I am under the belief that it is going to be substantially longer than that for both phases. I have heard that plugging into a 120 volt source charges something like 10 miles per hour, so to get to a charging station 5 miles away is a 30 minute wait. Yes? No? Am I wrong about that?
If it happens once a year, no big. If it happens once every 2 weeks, do you not see how annoying/frustrating/trying that could become for someone who is very absent-minded?
Kind of missing the point - Like many, seem to want to equate an EV with gas - filling an EV is not the same - much less time and effort daily use than with gas - no trips and wait in line at Costco to fill. On trip, again different and not as much of an issue as many seem to think. Since leave full every night, would need to drive over 200 miles to get to 20%, let alone 1%.
Also, a BEV is never at 1% charge because that is not smart, never go below 20% unless on a trip and then don't normally go below 10%. And forgetting to fill up with gas is very different from forgetting to charge - when charging is at home. You don't "forget" to charge at home, it is just what you do as routine every day - it would be like forgetting to go to work.
BTW with fast chargers, it is maybe 10 minutes to get to 100-150 miles charge from low charge level.
Just in case any EV driver in this forum, one who usually drives long distances at subfreezing temperatures and doesn't know why sometimes a battery takes a very long time to charge, from fully discharged to even 80%. Please watch the following video in its entirety. This is not an anti-EV video, but one hosted by EV drivers explaining some of the technicalities involved in battery charging versus temperature. The hosts also explain which automobiles don't incorporate a battery pre-heating system to warm the battery before arriving to a charging station. I see a bunch of videos from EV drivers who don't realize that battery temperature makes a big difference in charing speed. These people are wasting a long time to charge a battery that is already cold below its normal operating temperature, plus discharged below the last 20%. Please watch the entire video if you are an EV driver:
The host has another video where he demonstrates what is "yo-yo driving" one of two VW iD4, and what happens at the charging station to the one that was not driven "yo-yo". He also says that he has no idea if "yo-yo driving degrades the battery or not. He is doing it for those who may have to yo-yo drive on an emergency.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,694 posts, read 58,012,579 times
Reputation: 46171
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK
Just in case any EV driver in this forum, one who usually drives long distances at subfreezing temperatures and doesn't know why sometimes a battery takes a very long time to charge, from fully discharged to even 80%. Please watch the following video in its entirety. This is not an anti-EV video, ...
The host has another video where he demonstrates what is "yo-yo driving" one of two VW iD4, and what happens at the charging station to the one that was not driven "yo-yo". ....
Our neighbors have (6) Teslas that they "yo-yo" drive while the 'dormant ones' are hooked to their new $40k solar grid. Works for them (money / asset utilization is no barrier to them, obviously). That's fine, many of us are 'unique' (No need for me to buy fuel since 1976, that was 3m miles ago) And I have no toxic batteries needing to be to disposed or recycle. And no 'software' undates needed (ever)
If electric cars were honest ... there would be an EV subforum until there is 50% EV nationwide registration and utilization.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And I have no toxic batteries needing to be to disposed or recycle. And no 'software' undates needed (ever)
