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Old 12-26-2021, 08:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Gas being shipped to Europe is $280 per 1000 cm. It's sold to the consumer at an average of over $1500.

More from the "Greed is good" series:


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Old 12-26-2021, 02:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Exactly. Europeans are being screwed over by their own governments and Oligarchs.
Yep, the media and governments even gave up on trying to spin this to blame Russia, so they are doing all they can to sweep it under the rug.
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Old 12-26-2021, 05:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
2009 gas crisis. Ukraine is not a reliable partner for anyone. From Wikipedia.

"On January 7 Gazprom claimed that since the beginning of 2009, Ukraine had stolen more than 86 mmcm of gas. Naftogaz acknowledged that it had taken a certain amount of gas, but claimed the amount taken was only 52.2 mmcm, and reiterated that it was entitled to take this gas in order to maintain full operation of the network.[68]"


So basically - the Ukrainians were admitting that "yes, we stole the gas but not as much as you think, plus we feel justified stealing it.



That's for 2009 crisis that Elnina mentioned, and it looks like the same story was repeated in 2006 - ( or rather happened first.)


"The conflict began when Russia claimed that Ukraine was not paying for gas and was diverting gas bound from Russia to the European Union from pipelines that crossed the country. Ukrainian officials at first denied the last accusation,[1][2] but later Naftogaz admitted it used some gas intended for other European countries for domestic needs."



So when I look into the *fine details* of those events, I don't think that it's even about "Ukrainians being not reliable partners for anyone."


It looks like they were trying to show to Moscow "who is the boss here," once they've got that first pro-American Yushenko ( and his American wife) for a president. As in "So what that you've got gas, we are still in charge of the transit, so we have a leverage here over you, and this includes the price of gas - we have bargaining power."

So their FIRST "Orange revolution" ( that later flopped) goes back to 2004, and it's the pre-history of the events of 2014.

That's when we see the first public appearance of the Ukrainian Nationalists on the scene, the clear political division within geographical lines, between the Western and Eastern parts of the country, and the fizzling economy with the arrival of anti-Russian forces at the helm.

Those "gas wars" stem from there, and no matter how much Kremlin was accused of corruption, when it comes to honoring the contracts with Europe - Russians were always prompt. It was UKRAINE that was messing up the deals, and trying to get in the way.

That's how/why the idea of Nord Stream 2 came about - to avoid this pestilence and attempt to control Moscow, the decision to cut Ukraine out of supply chain all together.

Last edited by erasure; 12-26-2021 at 06:19 PM..
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Old 12-26-2021, 06:08 PM
 
26,832 posts, read 22,622,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Exactly. Europeans are being screwed over by their own governments and Oligarchs.

Well.. let's call them "special interests" groups, and since the Western media is undereporting the whole situation ( if not downright hushing it up,) here it comes, straight from the horse's ( er.. Putin's) mouth.

He explains the whole situation to the channel1 rep during his press-conference, and this Russian site ( thanks lord) finally supplies the translation.

If anyone has anything to say, to contradict his words, to bring different/additional information - please do.

This would be a good time.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0v2zCX9O2s


P.S. What I find here particularly amusing ( if to believe what the journalist from the channel 1 is saying,) is the Ukrainians are requesting European Commission TO COMPEL Russia to "supply more gas to the market." To compel by some magic law in the minds of Ukrainians.
ROTFLMAO.

Last edited by erasure; 12-26-2021 at 06:23 PM..
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Old 12-26-2021, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Dayton OH
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A big contributing factor to the fast-rising prices in the European gas market relates to the rising price of carbon emissions permits in EU countries. These are permits that power plants and other large sources of carbon emissions are required to purchase. The price of the carbon emissions permits has risen so much in the past two years that many coal burning power plant operators are speeding up their planned conversions from coal to natural gas, which results in lower cost requirements for carbon emissions permits.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...ng-2021-04-21/

I was living in Chemnitz, Germany up until the end of September. The local power and steam (heating) plant burns lignite (brown) coal that arrives by train from an open pit coal mine about 50 kilometers north of the plant. The boilers for the steam turbines draw water from the Chemnitz River, and the result is a power system that is very reliable and cost effective. However, the cost of carbon emission permits have forced the power plant to accelerate transition to natural gas by 2023 instead of 2029. This is just one real case, and there are hundreds of others like it in Germany and many other countries in Europe.

I would guess that Poland at some point will be under huge pressure because of the cost of the carbon emission permits. Poland generates the vast majority of power from lignite coal reserves, just like in the eastern part of Germany.
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Old 12-26-2021, 07:41 PM
 
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I have been following what the EU governing powers have been doing to countries like Hungary and Poland. Forcing them into things the people do not want. Neither country want masses of immigrants crossing their borders, neither country want their constitutions or legal systems to be second to those in Brussels yet the EU continues to pressure both mightily to conform.

Orban is demonized, Poland is threatened with withdrawal of monetary support and both get numerous other threats.

Where have we seen this before?

For those that don't remember it was called the Warsaw Pact and it was run from Moscow.

So, what has really changed?

Why can't Poles build a Thorium Reactor some time in the future? Why can't Poles build some small reactors with French help? China is building one. Macron recently stated they they will be going even more nuclear in the future.



It's because Poles sold themselves to the EU. Hungary is still fighting back but it's just a matter of time for them.
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Old 12-26-2021, 07:48 PM
 
26,832 posts, read 22,622,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I have been following what the EU governing powers have been doing to countries like Hungary and Poland. Forcing them into things the people do not want. Neither country want masses of immigrants crossing their borders, neither country want their constitutions or legal systems to be second to those in Brussels yet the EU continues to pressure both mightily to conform.

Orban is demonized, Poland is threatened with withdrawal of monetary support and both get numerous other threats.

Where have we seen this before?

For those that don't remember it was called the Warsaw Pact and it was run from Moscow.

So, what has really changed?

Why can't Poles build a Thorium Reactor some time in the future? Why can't Poles build some small reactors with French help? China is building one. Macron recently stated they they will be going even more nuclear in the future.



It's because Poles sold themselves to the EU. Hungary is still fighting back but it's just a matter of time for them.

The agenda.

The agenda on EU's menu is different from the Soviet agenda.
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Old 12-26-2021, 07:56 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,468,278 times
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The purpose of the agenda? Agendas? I'm kind of ignorant of the respective agendas?
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Old 12-26-2021, 08:09 PM
 
26,832 posts, read 22,622,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
The purpose of the agenda? Agendas? I'm kind of ignorant of the respective agendas?

Let's see here...

It's fairly easy to describe the essence of the Soviet agenda;
1. You have to serve(support) the Soviet ideology ( i.e. the ideas of superiority of Marxism-Leninism/Socialism (and whatever "isms") over the capitalist societies,
and 2. You have to serve/support/promote the interests of the USSR.



Now let's think about the EU and what it promotes in essence ( i.e. THEIR agenda.)
So what comes to mind?


1. Racial thing.
2. Gender thing.


You are welcome to add your own thoughts/observations.
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Old 12-26-2021, 10:24 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,468,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Let's see here...

It's fairly easy to describe the essence of the Soviet agenda;
1. You have to serve(support) the Soviet ideology ( i.e. the ideas of superiority of Marxism-Leninism/Socialism (and whatever "isms") over the capitalist societies,
and 2. You have to serve/support/promote the interests of the USSR.



Now let's think about the EU and what it promotes in essence ( i.e. THEIR agenda.)
So what comes to mind?


1. Racial thing.
2. Gender thing.


You are welcome to add your own thoughts/observations.
To me you can take the USSR and the USA 30 years ago and there were few differences. Today between the EU, Russia and the USA I see little difference between the 3 with the exception of big differences in political ideology.

The USA has difficulty accepting the world is changing when it comes to power structures. It is belligerence and incompetence expressed to the fullest and basically refuses to see any other path.

Russia is just trying to get along.

The EU is ruled by ideologues and that makes them dangerous not only to Russia but to the people of the EU.

The EU accepting it's domination by the USA makes it a very bad thing for the world.
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