How much money can 1 person live on an few acres (homesteading)? (best, old)

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Quietude

... Which, IMHO, completely and totally moots what you said above, and (if I may be politely honest) is a big part of why I roll my eyes at people who buy a piece o' land way out inta boonies and pretend to be homesteading or off the grid or roughing it.

Live a year without grid power and then tell us how it was so pretend.

... Having lifetime maximum healthcare coverage on demand makes prattle about off-the-grid doctoring a leetle bit nonsensical and misleading, doesn't it?

I do not see how. I live within a community. Most of the people I rub elbows with are NOT servicemembers.

Simply because I am a servicemember that does not make me blind to what my neighbors are doing.

Originally Posted by Parnassia

If you can't answer these questions yourself because you haven't done it before that's a huge problem. Money is just one aspect of it. You can have the money to start but injure yourself or get sick and be unable to do the work. You may not be able to acquire enough land to support the livestock or crops you'll need to produce to be self-supporting. Just where you try to do it matters as well. If you are lucky enough to try it in an area where others are also living this way (and can support you by helping, educating, bartering/buying your produce) maybe. Not all vacant land waiting for a homesteader is productive. It can take years of effort and investment to get it in any shape to produce a thing. You have to support yourself until it can.

There are organizations that offer opportunities to Apprentice on a functional farm, so a person can learn the skills.

MOFGA is a big group in this area that helps the new start-up farms.

Also some farms 'seed'.

Take Tom for example. He started a farm called 'Peacemeal Farm'. He gathered apprentices and taught them how to operate that farm. Tom formed a partnership with those apprentices as partners, then he sold the farm to the partnership. The Farm Manager there is Mark [also a friend of mine].

Then Tom moved on and started a second farm. Once the second farm became sustainable, He gathered some apprentices and taught them how to operate that farm. Tom formed a partnership with those apprentices as partners, then he sold the farm to the partnership.

Do you see any patterns here? Today Tom operates his fourth farm, it is called 'Snakeroot farm'. He is taking in apprentices, again in the hope that they will partner to take it over from him. As these folks are working together and he tries to get them to form a partnership. When a group congeals [it may take a number of years, and changes of personnel] then they sign a contract, buy him out, and Tom goes and buys fresh land to start another farm on. Tom is an old hippy, he started doing this in the 70s. He forms off-grid organic / sustainable farms. I doubt he has ever had much money. His mission in life is starting up farms. There are methods of becoming a farmer that do not require much upfront cash.

Also keep in mind that MOFGA over-sees an Apprenticeship / Journeyman program for N.E.

Anyone who is interested in becoming a farmer [on-grid or off-grid] can apply to any MOFGA farm to apprentice. I have even been approached by college kids asking to apprentice over the summers on my farm. Over 100 farms in Maine take in apprentices every year.

If you stay for a season and decide you like it, you get your name on the MOFGA listing. Then rotate around to different farms each season, so you get more rounded. As a Journeyman, they can place you on a farm for a year, in a Farm Manager position for you somewhere. After that they have a network to match you up with your own land.

Every year we see new farms starting up here in Maine.

[oregonwoodsmoke]

I've raised a lot of veggies, fruit, meat, poultry, eggs. It's great quality eating, but not any savings in money.

No matter how dedicated to farming you are, you'll have to buy some groceries. You'll have to pay property taxes. You'll have to buy animal feed ( unless you go vegan). You'll need medical care.

If you have enough land to grow grain and livestock, you will most likely have to pay for irrigation water.

You'll need money for canning supplies and gasoline and you'll have a lot of money tied up in the equipment to keep livestock, poultry, and protect your vegetables and fruit from all the wildlife who wants to share it with you.

It's a lot of work. I enjoyed it, but it is difficult to get a day off and I put in long hours every day of the year.

[Quietude]

Originally Posted by Submariner

Live a year without grid power and then tell us how it was so pretend.

I won't argue or disparage your efforts. I have family who have done the same, including a sister who's lived pretty much the last 40 years on a mountaintop farm. (She does have power, but that's about it for modern efficiencies.)

I'll just say there's a difference between living and dying this way, or simply living five miles from a town with every modern life-support system including state-of-the-art medicine. Boiling your own bandages is one thing; watching blood rot creep up an arm is another.

I do not see how. I live within a community. Most of the people I rub elbows with are NOT servicemembers.

How many are on Medicare?

You being ex-service only matters here in that you are in a minority that never, ever has to worry about medical care or its costs. That's a pretty comfy cushion on which to go be a subsistence farmer in the woods, far more valuable than simply having a fat bank account.

I'm not calling you down on this, I just don't have much patience with the crowd that imagines they're so self-sufficient and crisis-proof just because they live a mile out on a dirt road. (Not you.)

There are organizations that offer opportunities to Apprentice on a functional farm, so a person can learn the skills.

It's an oldie, but I think anyone seriously considering this kind of life needs to read Five Acres and Independence. It is only dated in some of the language and assumptions; it would seem that most homesteaders are looking for about this level of sustainable life/tech, anyway. I also like that it's pretty no-BS about my point above (which I may well have gotten from it): that even the most self-sufficient 'steader needs an awful lot from the outside world to do more than subsist and die of the first serious medical condition.

It's probably no longer a one-book guide to the life, but at $5 it will knock a lot of illusory thinking and self-deception out of those who think a self-sustaining life on a farm isn't much harder than mowing lawns.

[BumbleBeeHunter]

Originally Posted by unseengundam

These days I am thinking about living low cost on an off-grid homestead. Lower cost by not having electric, water, sewer, etc. Also, living in an area without building code enforcement so I build/live in a rickety container type home.

Maybe, even try save more money by substance farming and keep chickens, goats, etc.

The question really how much will this cost? Will farming/ranch feed end up costing a lot more $$ than saving?

Anyone ever tried this? Or anyone put together costs associated with this type of lifestyle.

We were going to attempt this. Bought 23 acres (only 3.5 is use-able yet surrounded by BLM land) to live off grid. The town boasts maybe 50 people year round. County plows the roads so that is a big plus. Some snow too, not alot. Town boasts just one building which acts as the small restaurant and post office. Nothing else there except a school house with no kids used as a community hall and the fire house.

This particular small town has many folks who built illegal homes, and is known for being crime riddled which keeps the police away. Building inspectors are afraid to come there so their homes and how they live, is very protected.

The internet is lightening fast cable. Great landlines. It isn't completely in the boondocks though the entire town is off Grid. It is located in Northern California

About 30 min each direction is a town town ranging from 1500-2000 people. Jobs are minimal unless you want a commute of an hour into the larger town of 13,500 people. Our land boasts a few springs and a mine. Surprisingly it hasn't sold. It also shows a 300 or so square foot house on it though there is none. One can say there is a wall and call it a remodel saving a ton of $$ on permits. It is listed for 70K

Our Realtor we just learned, is claiming the springs come from her pond. Except that is untrue, it's a lie she started years back that others believe. She doesn't want to fess up apparently. The water was tested, it comes from the mine on the property.

I don't hold my breathe it's going to sell. We'll need to get a different Realtor, I am sure. The criminals don't help but they mind their own business. There is really no crime in town, their crimes are committed outside of our towns permimeters (aside from their illegal marijuana growing which has ceased since it became legal so they aren't making the $$ they did).

We decided it wasn't for us. The bears mean we cannot grow fruit trees without issues. Same with keeping chickens, we'd need a dog. I don't want a dog. As for growing vegetables, that is an option as long as it is within a fence. Could live out there very inexpensively.



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[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by Submariner

Back in the 1980s we were milking goats and my Dw bartered goat cheese for all her prenatal care.

Where we live now there are MDs who go 'barefoot' [they refuse insurance]. Doctors who published flat fees for each procedure and always much lower cost than what healthcare networks charge the insurance companies.

Every few weeks I see another article about doctor offices who form their own networks free from the insurance companies.

I have coverage from my employer [US Navy] so I can walk into any hospital in the nation. I am going through radiation treatment now for my cancer, I just have to wait in line with the Canadians here for medical tourism [the curse of living in a border state].

Not to mention military retirement and SS.

[Submariner]

We know a lot of people living in our area, that gross somewhere between $10k and $15k a year. From some combination of working in town and farm income.

One nearby town has a 'per-capita' income of $8k/year.

It is not much money, but it is enough to support a family.

[Quietude]

Originally Posted by Submariner

We know a lot of people living in our area, that gross somewhere between $10k and $15k a year. From some combination of working in town and farm income.

One nearby town has a 'per-capita' income of $8k/year.

It is not much money, but it is enough to support a family.

I'm not arguing that. I've lived on similar income levels, although not as a subsistence farmer.

So I assume most have or qualify for state Medicare? For those medical events the local chìjiao yīshēng (or however you pronounce it, Down East) can't handle?

[Themanwithnoname]

I am also retired military and I also live on an off grid homestead.

I am more of a "hobbiest" than Sub-dude, I have gardens, babysized trees and small livestock, but I give away my excess rather sell it.

I live wastefully on <$2k\month, but I know someone who works part time and makes $6k\year. He makes another ~$2k from selling garden produce like Sub, and gets $1,200 and some beef from renting his grass.

a couple I know live off $7,500 Social security and what they make from selling goats and chickens.

Another couple who live on <$2k\month (social security) have bees, goats, sell dogs (not a puppy mill) chickens and occasionally a cow...I have to go feed their livestock as they are on vacation.

I'm the only one offgrid, but all of us have gardens (point of interest: I do it by choice, I save half my income.) And livestock. (I have bees and rabbits, sometimes chickens... I don't want the long term obligations.)

OP: it depends on how you do it. It can be an expensive hobby, an income, or a way of life.

[Meemur]

Originally Posted by unseengundam

Also, living in an area without building code enforcement so I build/live in a rickety container type home.

EPIC FAIL.

Mr. Murphy will be a frequent visitor to your property.

There is nothing wrong with the dream of running a working homestead, and there are many people who are successful and happy in this endeavor. However, you have the wrong mindset.

The successful homesteader is a good engineer and problem-solver who understands the value of solid
buildings and the need for an off-site income for a few years until the homestead is supporting itself, if that is the goal. While you don't need to spend megabucks on traditional structures, what you do build/rehab needs to be sound enough to withstand the weather and keep you and your tools safe. You also need to consider a solid structure that will support wiring and plumbing. Even if you opt for solar or wind power, you still have wiring and fire hazards. Bad plumbing can contaminate your water. Are you going to build in TX? How are you going to handle tornadoes?

As others have posted, I suggest that you do at least a voluntary internship on some sort of homestead so that you have a realistic view of the challenges.

Re: code enforcement. I have dealt with my share of Code Nazis. However, they aren't always evil monsters, and in the right setting, they keep homeowners from damaging streams or creating other problems that directly impact their neighbors. Your goal isn't so much to find an area that zoning forgot (difficult to do!) but to find an area that meets your homesteading requirements and has "reasonable" local authorities.

There's no point in putting in hundreds of hours and dollars into a piece of land that isn't going to pay you back, and there are pieces that have no zoning/building codes for a good reason: they are basically uninhabitable.

[Threestep2]

Sub - my apologies.