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How long you lived in an area and that according to your personal interpretation of school bus stops there was none is fairly irrelevant. The bus had the stop arm out and stopped. Your vehicle was photographed. You got a ticket. Pay it and next time follow traffic rules.
(There's no paperclip showing for attachments, probably because I just registered. Had to post dashcam pic online) https://imgur.com/a/OXLpdzr
I'm posting because a very similar situation just affected our 20-year-old son. I'm not saying he didn't break the law, as written in black and white because he did. Just like anyone who does a rolling stop at a stop sign or doesn't fully stop before turning right at a red light also violates the law as written.
I'm saying something is wrong here and needs to change. I don't even know if Cherokee buses have citation cameras. My concerns are on a larger scale.
Bells Ferry Rd near the Hwy 92 intersection is one of the busiest traffic flows between Cherokee County and Cobb County. So my first question is, why is any school bus stopping on this highway to let children on and off if everyone is so concerned about vehicles and children being in the same space and time?
Our son waited until age 20 to get his license after having a Learner's Permit for 4 years. He just took the 30-hour Joshua's Law class and had 6 hours of behind-the-wheel training with instructors, which he didn't have to do at his age. On Friday (1/12) he took the driving test with me riding shotgun. It was pouring rain. He scored a perfect 100.
Now his head is all f'd up after driving home from KSU (college) on his THIRD DAY of a commute that's less than 15 miles each way. With 4-8 lanes to contend with on this highway traveling at around 50 mph with traffic flow, he's supposed to go heavy on his brakes for a school bus that's just pulled over and stopped in a right-turn-only lane, initially with only yellow lights flashing? I watched the dashcam video.
I've been driving for 45 years, and I'm not sure I would know what to do if I were driving on this highway and a bus pulled into the right-turn-only lane with yellow lights flashing. Is it broken down? Is it turning right into that shopping center? Surely it can't be STOPPING in the middle of a right-turn-only lane, right? It's not legal for me to do that. Do I slam on my brakes and get rear-ended?
Why is ANY driver being put into a dangerous situation like this in the first place? In the video, 2 other vehicles are passing my son on the left side. They didn't know what to do either.
I will say that nothing has arrived in the mail yet. It's only been 3 days. But he's a good kid, much better than me at his age. He's a safe driver, and now I'm unsure if he will ever feel comfortable and relaxed just driving 30 miles a day. It's messed him up. If he were a crappy driver, he wouldn't care.
Anyway, this incident forced me to research what's going on here. I found that there are 2 distinct outcomes for anyone caught breaking this law, depending on HOW they are caught. If it's by a camera mounted on the school bus, this is what happens (according to https://www.violationinfo.com/GAAIS/html/info.htm posted by the city of Atlanta):
"You, as the registered owner of the vehicle described on this Citation, are alleged to have failed to stop before reaching or overtaking a school bus on a highway while the visual signals were in operation, at the place, date, and time specified on this notice. Under Georgia Code § 40-6-163, you are presumed to be the driver but such presumption may be rebutted as outlined below.
This violation carries a civil monetary penalty of $250.00.
The violation is not considered a moving traffic violation. This violation will not be made a part of your driving record and no points will be assessed nor shall it be used for any insurance purposes in the provision of motor vehicle insurance coverage.
Failure to pay the civil monetary penalty or to contest liability in a timely manner shall waive any right to contest liability and you shall be liable for a civil monetary penalty of $250.00.
TO PAY YOUR CIVIL MONETARY PENALTY:"
Then they list the click and pay, call and pay, pay at your nearest CVS Pharmacy or Walmart, and mail and pay options. NOTE that this is "not a moving traffic violation." Uh, WHAT?!?
On the other hand, if an officer with jurisdiction observes the same driver do the same thing, they can't issue a warning and must write a citation. And here's what that person is now faced with (https://www.lawofficeofscottmiller.c...georgia-.cfm):
"Criminal charges and a mandatory court appearance
Monetary fines ranging from $300 to $1,000
Imposition of 6 points on drivers license
Court-ordered community service
Compulsory defensive driving classes
Court-ordered probation
Increased insurance rates"
It's also an automatic 6-month license suspension for drivers under 21. So after all of that, what's really going on here?
1. How can this offense simultaneously be either civil or criminal? (I'm not an attorney)
2. Since the vehicle must be moving to violate this law, how can it ever be "not considered a moving traffic violation"?
3. Does it create hazardous driving conditions for a school bus to pull into a right-turn-only lane with flashing yellow lights, then stop and spring its flashing STOP arm on a major highway?
4. Am I the only one who considers it "strange" that being caught by camera means you just pay us $250, and here are all of the convenient ways to do so, including by MoneyGram? So just pay up and we won't tell anyone what you did, including your insurance company.
5. Out of the 3 vehicles in our dash video, all failed to stop, even though they all might have perfect driving records. Will all 3 receive a photo citation in the mail?
Nobody wants children to be run over, period. But I'm also no fan of drivers having to quickly apply their brakes to stop on highways with the normal traffic flow moving at 45-60 mph. There has to be a better way.
A camera ticket is a civil violation because cameras can't issue criminal violations as they cannot be cross examined. A law enforcement officer CAN issue a criminal violation, because they personally witnessed the infraction.
Ok guys....I have not posted anything new on here in about a million years...BUT now I really need to share this.This traffic ticket I recently got "awarded " with, has really gotten me ratched up, enough to make a comeback on here .
My backstory: I live in Spalding County Georgia. I've always had a very clean record...Ok, I'm not perfect, but I'm definitely not some reprobate either. But I digress a little. Anyway, long story short, I got this ticket in the mail that said I was in "violation of the school bus stop arm" policy.
I reviewed the pictures caught on camera, basically the long and the short of this , my better half and I were driving on the main drag (a busy intersection -those of you familiar with Griffin, McIntosh road and Hwy 19.41 intersection)with a divided highway and 5-6 lanes of traffic,counting the transition one in the middle) The school bus in question was in the far right/mandatory lane.
And yes, I am fully aware of what the laws say about what motorists are supposed to do...if it's a two lane road and they're approaching, and stopping to let kids off/pick them up and when you are behind the bus you have to stop and wait for them to proceed again, I learned that way back when I was in Drivers' Ed.
I enclosed a small screenshot so you can get a big picture visual of what was going on, that text alone may not illustrate. I don't know if I'm allowed to do that or not so I'll remove it if I need to.
Anyway even though the bus driver did have the stop arm out at the time, there was no way she would have been letting kids out on a busy place like that, in the mandatory right lane. We were three lanes down from the bus. In no way impeding things.
I'm sorry, but this sounds like total b.s. Has anyone been in a situation like this? This has got to be the most cockamamie "offense" I've ever seen.
What would YOU do if you were in this situation? Do you think this is B.S.? And no, don't tell me this whole camera thing is done to "protect the children". It's all just a big fat cash cow. Anyway, that's my rant for the day...
Its a kind of a scam, but you probably don't have a legal argument. My wife just got a similar ticket. Municipalities are parceling out school bus arm enforcement to some for profit enterprise out of Seattle. I think there may be 2 or 3 of these companies. They put cameras on the school buses and send out tickets and share the revenue with the cities.
My wife got one on North Avenue somewhere in midtown (it gives you GPS but not an actual address). She was on the opposite side of a 4 lane road and didn't remember the situation (another part of the scam-you get the ticket without anyone telling you at the time). But it looks like the bus was parked at a Pizza Hut and not letting any kids out. I don't know why a school bus would stop on North Avenue.
So yes, its BS. And being Georgia, they are probably paying kickbacks to the city official who gave them the contract. But you probably just have to pay it. Unless you are moving out of state and not coming back!
When I lived in Atlanta, I was often stopped by a school bus on Sidney Marcus Blvd/northern spur of the Buford-Spring Connector at the intersection of Lenox Rd.; at that point the road is a divided highway with six lanes. There was an apartment complex there, and the bus would disgorge what must have been at least 150 rugrats. It seemed to take forever.
Nevertheless, cars stopped in all lanes and in both directions.
Its a kind of a scam, but you probably don't have a legal argument. My wife just got a similar ticket. Municipalities are parceling out school bus arm enforcement to some for profit enterprise out of Seattle. I think there may be 2 or 3 of these companies. They put cameras on the school buses and send out tickets and share the revenue with the cities.
My wife got one on North Avenue somewhere in midtown (it gives you GPS but not an actual address). She was on the opposite side of a 4 lane road and didn't remember the situation (another part of the scam-you get the ticket without anyone telling you at the time). But it looks like the bus was parked at a Pizza Hut and not letting any kids out. I don't know why a school bus would stop on North Avenue.
So yes, its BS. And being Georgia, they are probably paying kickbacks to the city official who gave them the contract. But you probably just have to pay it. Unless you are moving out of state and not coming back!
I have always been against traffic cameras, but so many posts like this are slowly changing my mind, for both red light cameras and school bus cameras. Big brother cameras are really bad, but these days they seem like a necessary evil. I don't think anything other then a camera on every single school bus is going to convince people like you to follow the law and stop for school buses. And the penalties are going to have to go way up too, maybe even jail time. You school bus light runners are a dedicated bunch.
I have always been against traffic cameras, but so many posts like this are slowly changing my mind, for both red light cameras and school bus cameras. Big brother cameras are really bad, but these days they seem like a necessary evil. I don't think anything other then a camera on every single school bus is going to convince people like you to follow the law and stop for school buses. And the penalties are going to have to go way up too, maybe even jail time. You school bus light runners are a dedicated bunch.
I'm in favor of people learning to read. It was my wife and she didn't even notice it.
I'm in favor of people learning to read. It was my wife and she didn't even notice it.
You are defending your wife's reckless driving and total disregard for the safety of children riding school buses.
Maybe you might want to suggest to your wife that she think about this. The next time she blows past school bus lights that she doesn't even notice, she almost certainly will not notice a kid running across the road to catch that invisible bus. When she runs the kid over, even the best lawyer in the world, won't be able to prevent her from spending the next 5 - 10 years in the state prison for manslaughter. She will have no possible defense. You can't argue that the kid ran in front of you and you just didn't have time to stop, when you should have already been stopped for the flashing lights and Stop sign.
Its a kind of a scam, but you probably don't have a legal argument. My wife just got a similar ticket. Municipalities are parceling out school bus arm enforcement to some for profit enterprise out of Seattle. I think there may be 2 or 3 of these companies. They put cameras on the school buses and send out tickets and share the revenue with the cities.
My wife got one on North Avenue somewhere in midtown (it gives you GPS but not an actual address). She was on the opposite side of a 4 lane road and didn't remember the situation (another part of the scam-you get the ticket without anyone telling you at the time). But it looks like the bus was parked at a Pizza Hut and not letting any kids out. I don't know why a school bus would stop on North Avenue.
So yes, its BS. And being Georgia, they are probably paying kickbacks to the city official who gave them the contract. But you probably just have to pay it. Unless you are moving out of state and not coming back!
I would be seriously concerned about potential vision problems in such a case.
Moving out of state does not make your ticket go away. It rears its head once you apply for a license or register a vehicle.
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