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What your husband said would have broke my heart, I'm so sorry that happened to you. I would have said I wished he'd let me know that fact when I was raising YOUR kids. I would have listed everything I'd ever done for them.
Shame on the "army"! You were right about the pool, and now the victims are you and the grandkids. Wish I had advice to help you, but it sounds like you have a big decision to make. Good luck to you.
I'm kind of torn, but I tend to side with the parents, only in the sense that I'm hugely respectful of parental authority even when they're in the wrong, so long as the "wrong" doesn't involve abuse or neglect of the highest order.
One observation I've made over the years is how nutty people can become when they have a pool. All of a sudden they start thinking safety almost to an extreme sometimes. I'm not saying that's what you were doing, but that many do. It's almost like they're more concerned about being sued and lawyers etc than anything else and it can take all the fun out of things. I can tell you that we have kids and they've learned how to swim, and we look SPECIFICALLY for places we can go and do things OUR WAY with absolutely NO INTERFERENCE from ANYONE, EVER. We know what we're doing, and don't need or want anyone interfering. Thus we totally avoid city pools especially, or most people with private pools, because yes they are way over-the-top sometimes with the restrictions and making it feel like you're a child in elementary school being scolded by the teacher. We thus only go to places that are very "hands off" to where we can do things our way. Public lakes and this one gym that has a pool and it's very rarely lifeguarded are such places we go.
I am not one that thinks one can NEVER tell another person how to parent their child, I think family members etc should be able to offer their 2 cents worth so long as they use the right tone of voice, and I ESPECIALLY think that hosts have the right to not have their property damaged, meaning that I'd totally back you if you were describing parents who bring their bratty children over and the kids tore up everything.
However, beyond that, I am one who tends to think that people have to be VERY careful telling others have to parent their children. I can tell you I don't appreciate it. I don't mind advice all day long, but I can tell you that if I were to consider going to someone's house with an inground pool, I'd not want to have them interfere with how we parent, even though it's their house and their pool, I'd STILL feel that way. Trust me that I know what I'm doing.
That said, I don't tend towards pushing our children in. We have taught them. Even so, during times that they've been irrationally scared, I have been known to somewhat "throw them out there" and MAKE them handle their business, for a brief bit, then I'd go to where they were and help them. I'd do some of both--and yes, I think that's my business, even if I'm at your house. Otherwise, I'm not going to your house, ever.
Still, if you're the hostess, it's hard to totally ignore what you see, and if you see something you don't agree with, it's natural you are going to want to say something, and especially since you're family, you should be able--with the correct tone of voice--to give advice. The parent should reply more along the lines of "I appreciate that you're family" (because you ARE), but we've got this."
Throwing kids into a pool in "hopes" they will suddenly figure out how to swim is child abuse and can result in PTSD.
If you, as a grandparent, do not intervene, you are allowing a form of child abuse to take place before your eyes.
If you don't believe me, call Child Protective Services or ask a child psychologist.
Just sayin'
Oh please. REAL child abuse is things like burning their hand on purpose over a hot stove, locking in a basement with iron bars, molesting them, beating them with a baseball bat, truancy, drug usage, or maybe throwing them in a LAKE or such. Throwing a child into a pool--please. They're relatively small (so someone can more readily rescue the child & they aren't at risk of drifting out), the water is clear, and there are no submerged objects or currents to deal with.
Throwing them into a pool may not be A+ parenting, and it might be something better not practiced, but I'd hardly call it "child abuse," and it's ridiculous to say it is and certainly ridiculous to think these are situations where someone should be taking things to the point of intervening. When it's something relatively innocuous like this, it's not "intervening," it's INTERFERING, and unless you have REAL abuse going on, you don't DARE interfere.
Oh please. REAL child abuse is things like burning their hand on purpose over a hot stove, locking in a basement with iron bars, molesting them, beating them with a baseball bat, truancy, drug usage, or maybe throwing them in a LAKE or such.
... Making a toddler stand barefoot on hot asphalt....
You had every right about how your grandchildren are treated while in your home; and especially regarding their bone-head father wanting to just push them in the pool, with the sink or swim attitude.
Amazing the rude and condescending remarks from your husband. I can't imagine this is the first time he's been that cruel in his remarks.
Isn't it something that you are now considered 'an outsider' and have no say-so; and yet all the years he needed you to mother his children you were accepted?
Oh please. REAL child abuse is things like burning their hand on purpose over a hot stove, locking in a basement with iron bars, molesting them, beating them with a baseball bat, truancy, drug usage, or maybe throwing them in a LAKE or such. Throwing a child into a pool--please. They're relatively small (so someone can more readily rescue the child & they aren't at risk of drifting out), the water is clear, and there are no submerged objects or currents to deal with.
Throwing them into a pool may not be A+ parenting, and it might be something better not practiced, but I'd hardly call it "child abuse," and it's ridiculous to say it is and certainly ridiculous to think these are situations where someone should be taking things to the point of intervening. When it's something relatively innocuous like this, it's not "intervening," it's INTERFERING, and unless you have REAL abuse going on, you don't DARE interfere.
You have a very, very narrow view of what abuse is. It makes me wonder what you have unresolved from your background.
You have a very, very narrow view of what abuse is. It makes me wonder what you have unresolved from your background.
Nothing. Rather, I've seen the definition of "abuse" expand to ridiculous degrees. I've seen people cringe at parents who didn't do anything but refuse to buy candy for a child and that the child was crying was enough for people standing around to actually say "I think that's abuse." Some think it's "abuse" or at least neglect if your children don't look like they just came from the beauty parlor and have a little dirt on them from enjoying the mud. Someone once called the police on me for doing nothing more than scolding my then 1½ year old son VERBALLY to sit down in his high-chair and to stop standing up in it. (The police officer actually was laughing at how ridiculous the complaint was and shook my hand "sorry I had to bother you about something this silly." HIS WORDS.) Some people think it's bad parenting, if not abuse, simply to not let your 3 month old wear that cute pair of overalls someone bought them because it's too much fuss dealing with the straps when you've got to change their diaper, you're not supposed to think about your personal convenience ANY at ALL.
You even see it in pets, people who won't get an anti-bark collar for their dog that yaps all day long bothering the entire neighborhood because it's "abuse." Please.
Yes, I think what is called "abuse' should be VERY narrow. Letting your kids get dirty from playing in the mud isn't abuse. Leaving them in the car for 60 seconds at the gas station to pay for your gas and it's 65 degrees and cloudy isn't abuse. Making them eat what's given to them vs indulging their every whim like this is Burger King and you can have it your way isn't abuse.
And:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life
... Making a toddler stand barefoot on hot asphalt....
No, not abuse. His feet didn't suffer any burns, and he learned his lesson--stop taking your shoes off in the car else when you exit the car you'll encounter something very unpleasant and it will be YOUR FAULT for not doing as you were told. That his feet hurt for that brief bit--GOOD. Sometimes that's what it takes for them to learn, especially at that age. It isn't my job to keep putting his shoes back on his feet over and over, it's my job to instruct him on the right way and his job to listen and do as told it for one reason--because I said so. That whole thing was years ago anyway and anymore he ASKS if he can do whatever and many times I tell him "yes" and his cute face lights up with joy. Other times I tell him "no" and I do EXPLAIN WHY and he's okay with it. He's old enough now to be talked to in that way and I'm glad to do it. At that age, he wasn't, he had to be forced to comply somewhat to get the message that your parents' words are law.
THAT is parenting. You can have that soft mushy nonsense that lets kids rule the roost and do things like throw a fit in a nice restaurant and disrupt others. No, thank you.
So, with respect to the issue--no, that is not abuse. To call that abuse is to disrespect REAL abuse and cheapen the meaning of the word. It may or may not be the best way to deal with that situation, and the poster may be right to speak up and voice her disapproval for it (with the right tone), but it's not at all abuse.
Nothing. Rather, I've seen the definition of "abuse" expand to ridiculous degrees. I've seen people cringe at parents who didn't do anything but refuse to buy candy for a child and that the child was crying was enough for people standing around to actually say "I think that's abuse." Some think it's "abuse" or at least neglect if your children don't look like they just came from the beauty parlor and have a little dirt on them from enjoying the mud. Someone once called the police on me for doing nothing more than scolding my then 1½ year old son VERBALLY to sit down in his high-chair and to stop standing up in it. (The police officer actually was laughing at how ridiculous the complaint was and shook my hand "sorry I had to bother you about something this silly." HIS WORDS.) Some people think it's bad parenting, if not abuse, simply to not let your 3 month old wear that cute pair of overalls someone bought them because it's too much fuss dealing with the straps when you've got to change their diaper, you're not supposed to think about your personal convenience ANY at ALL.
You even see it in pets, people who won't get an anti-bark collar for their dog that yaps all day long bothering the entire neighborhood because it's "abuse." Please.
Yes, I think what is called "abuse' should be VERY narrow. Letting your kids get dirty from playing in the mud isn't abuse. Leaving them in the car for 60 seconds at the gas station to pay for your gas and it's 65 degrees and cloudy isn't abuse. Making them eat what's given to them vs indulging their every whim like this is Burger King and you can have it your way isn't abuse.
And:
No, not abuse. His feet didn't suffer any burns, and he learned his lesson--stop taking your shoes off in the car else when you exit the car you'll encounter something very unpleasant and it will be YOUR FAULT for not doing as you were told. That his feet hurt for that brief bit--GOOD. Sometimes that's what it takes for them to learn, especially at that age. It isn't my job to keep putting his shoes back on his feet over and over, it's my job to instruct him on the right way and his job to listen and do as told it for one reason--because I said so. That whole thing was years ago anyway and anymore he ASKS if he can do whatever and many times I tell him "yes" and his cute face lights up with joy. Other times I tell him "no" and I do EXPLAIN WHY and he's okay with it. He's old enough now to be talked to in that way and I'm glad to do it. At that age, he wasn't, he had to be forced to comply somewhat to get the message that your parents' words are law.
THAT is parenting. You can have that soft mushy nonsense that lets kids rule the roost and do things like throw a fit in a nice restaurant and disrupt others. No, thank you.
So, with respect to the issue--no, that is not abuse. To call that abuse is to disrespect REAL abuse and cheapen the meaning of the word. It may or may not be the best way to deal with that situation, and the poster may be right to speak up and voice her disapproval for it (with the right tone), but it's not at all abuse.
Yep, unresolved issues and passing them onto their child is often explained away just like this.
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Wish I had advice to help you, but it sounds like you have a big decision to make. Good luck to you.
