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"But my impression of American society is that most obese people just go to the doctor, and the doctor tells them they need to eat better. A doctor telling them to eat healthy is the same as a doctor telling an alcoholic to replace their vodka with water, IMO. Yeah, OK."
When the above words are part of the first paragraph in a post about weight loss, my opinion is that any conclusion isn't going to solve anything. The OP's impression of American society is such a broad generality it doesn't really make much sense. If that is someone's impression of what all doctors tell their patients, then very little research occurred.
My point was that general physicians aren't psychiatrists. They normally do not possess the specialized training and expertise sufficient to address the very complex psychological issues that often accompany obesity. Maybe some especially savvy physicians will have the sense to refer obese patients to psychologists - and I admittedly do not know the rate at which that happens. I know my relatives were never referred to mental health specialists before they died but that's just my experience. But even on shows like "my 600 pound life" on TLC - it's just the doctors telling them they are overeating and that their family are enablers, but they NEVER get sent to a psychologist/psychiatrist. They just get the lap band surgery as if that's some magic band-aid. If you have some data that contraindicates my point, please share because it will be beneficial to the topic.
My point was that general physicians aren't psychiatrists. They normally do not possess the specialized training and expertise sufficient to address the very complex psychological issues that often accompany obesity. Maybe some especially savvy physicians will have the sense to refer obese patients to psychologists - and I admittedly do not know the rate at which that happens. I know my relatives were never referred to mental health specialists before they died but that's just my experience. But even on shows like "my 600 pound life" on TLC - it's just the doctors telling them they are overeating and that their family are enablers, but they NEVER get sent to a psychologist/psychiatrist. They just get the lap band surgery as if that's some magic band-aid. If you have some data that contraindicates my point, please share because it will be beneficial to the topic.
You're correct! There is very often a psychological component to obesity. Once I had agroup of physicians providing a weight loss program to the morbidly obese as my marketing clients.. The first step in their program involved the patient having a photo made of themselves front and rear (in their underwear). That was to create awareness of body image and size.
Then there was psychological counseling. Most times there was a major underlying trauma. Violence, molestation, abuse (mental and physcial), parental desertion, early death, alcoholism, or other emotional pain.
Blood work often revealed nutritional deficiencies that needed correction. Lots of junk food doesn't make a healthy person.
Only after these components were addressed was the patient prescribed a weight loss nutritional program, along with an exercise plan...and they still received the emotional support through counseling and group support. This program had a much higher success rate in weight loss, improved health and keeping the weight off than other weight loss programs.
Being morbidly obese for years is a lot different than the average Joe or Jane wanting to lose 10-25 pounds. Obesity is a disease--mental, emotional--and physical. And hard to solve. One way is to substitute something else for the comfort of food...something healthy.
So, based on the above, do you believe that human nature has greatly changed in the last 30 years? Do you think that people had significantly more self control 30 years ago? Were children different 30 years ago?
Or
Could it be that something about our food is different? Could it be something else in the environment is different? Could it be a combination of many factors that has led to obesity?
I don't personally believe that human nature has changed. I don't think people are more lazy now. I think there have been a lot of changes to our environment though. Now it's much more common/likely that both parents work full time and as a result have less time to prepare foods from scratch (so they rely on pre-packaged foods more). Our food has been genetically modified. We have food scientists working to make sure foods taste good but never fill you up so you will continue to eat/buy them. IMO, a lot has changed, but human nature really hasn't.
Another example is that our government issued food recommendations that changed the way many families cooked: instead of using lard they switched to vegetable oil, instead of butter they used margarine, instead of whole milk we switched to skim, etc. Maybe we were better off before? I don't know because I wasn't alive back then, but I know that when I look at old photos almost no one was overweight.
I don't think obesity even can be treated as an addition in many cases (though food definitely is an addiction for some). But, we definitely need to change something. I personally think that getting back to eating whole foods is probably the best thing we can do. Stop allowing companies that produce packaged foods and drinks to dictate what is considered healthy. Obviously, they have a conflict of interest.
Maybe the foods are different. We have to realize that many grains, veggies etc have been modified by including non food elements. Round-up resistant grains, allow the fields to be sprayed with Round-up and not have it kill the grain plant. Many veggies have been modified to naturally emit "merit" a bug killer.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 12-09-2014 at 05:01 AM..
Reason: Removed colored font
I don't know if there's a "complacency" towards obesity. I think there's a lot of pressure to lose weight and a social stigma (more like hatred among some) if you're obese.
Though it's not "as bad" as drug addiction, because no one has to ever take drugs, they are not necessary for daily life and are not advertised on TV and available for cheap prices at the corner store. And you can still safely drive while under the influence of fat. So the pressure to quit (how do you quit food?) is less.
There's a lot of emotional baggage that comes with obesity, and it's hard to know when to intervene with someone who is fat and when to leave them alone. Certainly there are emotional causes for obesity, like bullying. A lot of people get bullied after they start to gain weight, so it's a Catch-22. They eat too much because they are depressed, they get bullied because they're fat, and then they eat more because they're bullied about being fat. Maybe if they were never bullied, they wouldn't have gained as much weight.
And some women say that they unconsciously started to gain weight during puberty to avoid unwanted sexual harassment. Maybe if they weren't harassed, they wouldn't have gained weight as a "shield." So in a nutshell, if some people weren't such jerks and a-holes, maybe the obese wouldn't have developed these unhealthy habits to begin with.
And there's a lot of unhealthy attitudes about food, kids being raised with bad habits, junk food, a bad understanding about what is a proper diet, appropriate servings, etc. My own diet is by no means stellar, but I have been shocked at seeing other people slather on multiple tablespoons of butter onto one bagel and they honestly think, "What? What am I doing wrong?" They think it's normal to eat that much butter. They truly have no idea. In their case perhaps some proper education one what is a "serving" would be helpful. Maybe they're not being bullied at all, they just don't know what to eat. But now that they're used to eating that way, it's hard to break the habit.
As far as Michelle Obama's school lunch program, from what I've heard, it's not the concept (which I think is a good idea) but how it is implemented. Not enough food for growing, athletic kids, and very unappetizing food (slop, by the looks of some of the pics I've seen on Twitter) which ends up getting thrown away. It's a fiasco.
My sister became bulimic because of sexual assault and abuse. Now she was thin and you wouldn't know she was eating whole pies in one sitting and throwing them up. I on the other hand, rebelled by not depriving myself but using fat as a means of getting rid of male attention that was threatening to me. I won't go into detail but there are reasons why this came about and it was not a conscious decision but more subconscious. I could be vilified and told I'm disgusting for being overweight but my just-as-sick sister was celebrated for her thinness and beauty. Neither one of us was healthy. Society would rather that you keep your suffering to yourself, and when you're fat you can't hide it. People hate that. They don't actually care if you're sick, depressed, whatever, they just want you to look like you're not so they don't have to deal with it.
The first step in their program involved the patient having a photo made of themselves front and rear (in their underwear). That was to create awareness of body image and size.
That would do nothing for me. I know what my body looks like and suspect everyone else knows what their body looks like, too. It's silly to act like people really don't know when they're in it all day. If you have a mole on your face it's not like you need a program to take 360 photos of it just to make you aware it's there (especially if random strangers point it out to you, too.)
People who are depressed don't CARE about body image and size. That's another thing these programs don't get. You can not shame people into being healthy or looking better.
That would do nothing for me. I know what my body looks like and suspect everyone else knows what their body looks like, too. It's silly to act like people really don't know when they're in it all day. If you have a mole on your face it's not like you need a program to take 360 photos of it just to make you aware it's there (especially if random strangers point it out to you, too.)
People who are depressed don't CARE about body image and size. That's another thing these programs don't get. You can not shame people into being healthy or looking better.
Maybe for some people, and maybe not for you, but apparently a goodly number of people are in denial about their true body size and shape...Some never really look in the mirror but cover themselves with clothes and avoid truly seeing their size.
This isn't "shaming" -- it's being honest. And it's a starting point for some successful weight control. But YMMV.
And has stated in my post, there was a psychological component to this program, so depression was worked on...
Think people. An addiction like alcohol is treated by getting the addict to stop drinking. No problem, a human can easily live without alcohol, or cocaine, etc. But you cant tell a food addict they never can eat again.
Think people. An addiction like alcohol is treated by getting the addict to stop drinking. No problem, a human can easily live without alcohol, or cocaine, etc. But you cant tell a food addict they never can eat again.
But a food "addict" can be re-directed to prefer healthier foods. Binging on potato chips or a gallon of ice cream versus a big salad for instance.
I used to be quite the sugar-holic..now I binge on one small square of very dark chocolate. I find it satisfying because the quality is high.
My sole snack foods are raw nuts or edamame in the pod.
You would think eventually the insurance companies would start demanding that fast food or junk food be more regulated or even banned.
They would be sued to Bolivia for that. Much easier for them to simply drop their fat customers.
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