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I support defunding the police in black and brown communities if they want it. Actually I support constructing an offshore island for this purpose exclusively.
After all if you don't need law and order you don't need the other basics necessities in life so better to be isolated from the general population.
It has my 100% support.
If you are intelligent enough to see how stupid this sounds then give me a LIKE
Yes, this sounds stupid. No, you don’t get a like for crafting a straw man argument.
This thread has started out as a dumpster fire already, but the point of Defund the Police is not to have no law enforcement, but to imagine a different kind of law enforcement. For example, armed police don't need to be social workers (dealing with mental health, homelessness, or domestic violence,) more robust social services are the answer. Decriminalizing some drugs, and getting users treatment rather than jail time is a part of the process. The idea that many people are so resistant to not having a publicly funded paramilitary organization with no accountability is part of the societal problem we're facing right now.
Anyone who has read a good sample of my posts would hardly label me a Social Justice Warrior, a wild 'Lefty', (or even a Democrat!) and I come down on the conservative side, especially in matters of economics more often than not.
But as I value individual freedom over equality I am strongly liberal, or rather intelligent, on most social issues like decriminalizing laws against drug use, prostitution, gambling, etc. I also cherish my right to own a rifle and a handgun, think that although abortion is horrible it should not be criminalized but, like marriage, be left to the states. (In fact I think marriage, as a legal status, should be eliminated, but that's for another thread, yeah?) So I have what is to many a confusing mix of political positions.
Considering the $hitstorm we're in now I decided to think long and hard about police reform, from demilitarization, re-training, to de-funding police departments.
And I am ALL FOR IT.
In fact, I think they should be DISMANTLED and the various jobs of traffic code enforcement, health emergencies, domestic disputes, fire or accidents, etc. be directed and responded to by specialized sub agencies.
The vast majority of police-citizen interactions are stressful, unnecessary, inappropriate and too often violent.
This need not be the case. Local neighborhoods should police themselves with people trained to deescalate conflict situations.
Private security agencies can be employed by businesses or individuals who feel the need.
Technology should be employed to reduce the amount of humans involved in matters of enforcement, like cameras on major toll roads that can ID each vehicle, determine if it's insured and issue an alert or a summons.
Policemen rarely prevent crime and with the laws currently on the books they are tasked with the repulsive job of arresting people for crimes without victims and sometimes for activities that the police themselves participate in! This surely must generate some nasty cognitive dissonance and should not be the norm, which I believe it is today.
But someone must investigate real crimes so I see the need for a small, highly trained, specialized force of detectives and cohorts to handle them. IMO this should be the nucleus of a re-imagined police force.
I do not enjoy interactions with armed authority as, like most people, they are usually involving a vehicle.
I have met NO ONE who does.
It's time we addressed this thorny issue and open ourselves to new ideas because it doesn't have to be this way.
For ANYONE.
Last edited by PamelaIamela; 06-10-2020 at 01:30 PM..
Anyone who has read a good sample of my posts would hardly label me a Social Justice Warrior, a wild 'Lefty', (or even a Democrat!) and I come down on the conservative side, especially in matters of economics more often than not.
But as I value individual freedom over equality I am strongly liberal, or rather intelligent, on most social issues like decriminalizing laws against drug use, prostitution, gambling, etc. I also cherish my right to own a rifle and a handgun, think that although abortion is horrible it should not be criminalized but, like marriage, be left to the states. So I have what is to many a confusing mix of political positions.
So I thought long about police reform, from demilitarization, re-training, to de-funding police departments.
And I am ALL FOR IT.
In fact, I think they should be DISMANTLED, and the various jobs of traffic code enforcement, health emergencies, domestic disputes, fire or accidents, etc. be directed and responded to by a specialized sub group.
The vast majority of police-citizen interactions are stressful, unnecessary, inappropriate and too often violent.
This need not be the case. Local neighborhoods should police themselves with people trained to deescalate conflict situations.
Private security agencies can be employed by businesses or individuals who feel the need.
Policemen rarely prevent crime and with the laws currently on the books they are tasked with the repulsive job of arresting people for crimes without victims and sometimes for activities that the police themselves participate in! This surely must generate some nasty cognitive dissonance and should not be the norm, which I believe it is today.
But someone must investigate real crimes so I see the need for a small, highly trained, specialized force of detectives and cohorts to handle them. IMO this should be the nucleus of a re-imagined police force.
I do not enjoy interactions with armed authority as, like most people, they are usually involving a vehicle.
I have met NO ONE who does.
It's time we addressed this thorny issue and open ourselves to new ideas because it doesn't have to be this way.
For ANYONE.
Yes what we need are poor neighborhoods policed by local 'community' street gangs and rich neighborhoods with their own private security armies. That would not at all be a dystopian society.
Yes what we need are poor neighborhoods policed by local 'community' street gangs and rich neighborhoods with their own private security armies. That would not at all be a dystopian society.
I'm always amazed at how narrow people are in their inability to actually have a conversation and try to understand what people are really trying to say. If you are a member of the community you're policing, that is far better than some guy who lives somewhere completely different. It disassociates them with the people they're trying to serve. But your limited view of only private armies or street gangs is well, narrow. And a little sad.
From what I can tell, from the people who are making fun of leaders trying to figure this ish out, is that it's all or nothing. It's astonishing you can't actually hear the words from these people and determine that none of those things are true - but reforming those a-holes who like to kill? Somehow that's bad? Somehow that makes us "far left wackos" the other guy said?
I propose that no one has the one right solution, that it'll be a work in progress, that the way things are now are not good. How do we come to the table and not call out names? How do we broaden our education and scope so we can see more than our side? I've been trying for so long and the push back I get is crazy...
Yes what we need are poor neighborhoods policed by local 'community' street gangs and rich neighborhoods with their own private security armies. That would not at all be a dystopian society.
Do you seriously think that what we have right now is better??
Do you seriously think that what we have right now is better??
By far. 99% of cops are doing a solid job. I don't actually see a major problem in the country related to policing. The problem are high levels of crime in certain areas which lead to a law enforcement focus on these areas. Solving the root causes of those crimes at a social or economic level isn't up to the police. That's a political mission.
Beyond that I see a problem manufactured and exacerbated by race baiters and people trying to destabilize the country in order to push through pet political agendas whether that's defeating Trump, radical revolution, privatization, what have you. It's the perfect time for Democratic Party politicos, Marxist whack jobs and libertarian whack jobs to abuse people's emotional reactions in order to get closer to what they really want. Police is just the scapegoat used for that.
I'm always amazed at how narrow people are in their inability to actually have a conversation and try to understand what people are really trying to say. If you are a member of the community you're policing, that is far better than some guy who lives somewhere completely different. It disassociates them with the people they're trying to serve. But your limited view of only private armies or street gangs is well, narrow. And a little sad.
From what I can tell, from the people who are making fun of leaders trying to figure this ish out, is that it's all or nothing. It's astonishing you can't actually hear the words from these people and determine that none of those things are true - but reforming those a-holes who like to kill? Somehow that's bad? Somehow that makes us "far left wackos" the other guy said?
I propose that no one has the one right solution, that it'll be a work in progress, that the way things are now are not good. How do we come to the table and not call out names? How do we broaden our education and scope so we can see more than our side? I've been trying for so long and the push back I get is crazy...
You're absolutely correct in thinking that this will continue as a work in progress, as will be the continuing dumbing down of America, the rise of the right, and enough hate to last us a good century or two. It seems as though the left and right have moved on from their more moderate frameworks and gone totally extreme.
Take note that the same posters who have this George Floyd incident all figured out are the same people who, for no valid reason, were telling us they knew way more than the nations best Doctors with respect to the coronavirus. This, ironically, is a reflection of their dear leader who also postures as a "stable genius." I'm pretty liberal and still support the main body of America's police force, and I'll say it again--Neither George Floyd, nor the cop who killed him are the faces of the average black man--or cop..
By far. 99% of cops are doing a solid job. I don't actually see a major problem in the country related to policing. The problem are high levels of crime in certain areas which lead to a law enforcement focus on these areas. Solving the root causes of those crimes at a social or economic level isn't up to the police. That's a political mission.
Beyond that I see a problem manufactured and exacerbated by race baiters and people trying to destabilize the country in order to push through pet political agendas whether that's defeating Trump, radical revolution, privatization, what have you. It's the perfect time for Democratic Party politicos, Marxist whack jobs and libertarian whack jobs to abuse people's emotional reactions in order to get closer to what they really want. Police is just the scapegoat used for that.
Let me ask, how many times in your life have you call the police? The only reason to ever call a cop is that it’s an insurance company requirement. The police are never there in an emergency only arrive after the fact. What has been the result of police involvement, mostly ZERO the same as without police involvement? The only thing cops are doing very well is to collect revenue by giving out citations, an income stream for the court system, municipality, and the police and I'm OK with that.
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) and I come down on the conservative side, especially in matters of economics more often than not.
