Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
If you are under the legal age, there is absolutely zero allowance to drink under any situation, however, if you are over the legal age, there is no restriction at all - even if you have multiple DUI's and even if you just got out of a mental institution or a hospital for a problem caused by drinking. Being over the legal age to drink is, in effect, an irrebuttable presumption of responsibility.
Would it not make more sense to put DUI offenders and the like on some sort of list, and block the sale of alcohol to such people for a period of time (perhaps 2 years is reasonable)? And why is it that one day before your magic birthday, you are completely disallowed from having a sip yet the next day, no matter what you do, you can legally buy it in any amount without any limit, supervision or other restriction?
This is particularly puzzling in light of the fact that many DUI offenders required to get interlock ignition actually do not comply. If it is so hard to get them to comply with that, would it not be sensible to, in essence, force sobriety on them?
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This is completely false.
The real answer is that it depends on the state and the conditions of your probation, and even your probation officer's discretion.
Some states outright prohibit alcohol consumption while on probation. The terms of probation can vary between county, judge, and even between seemingly identical cases. They can also vary based on the results of a drug and alcohol evaluation.
I've been through the DUI system once. Here's what I got in TN. First offense with no property damage.
1) 11m/29d sentence, suspended except for seven days in jail. Yes, seven days in county for a first offense DUI with no injury or property damage.
2) Supervised probation for the remainder of the 11m/29d. Amusingly enough, alcohol was not prohibited under the terms of my probation, but all other drugs, including weed, were. Technically subject to random alcohol/drug testing, but my PO was easygoing, I paid everything off immediately, and don't "look like a problem" when you're dealing with methheads and pill heads all do, so I never was.
I had to report any police contact at all.
3) Judges will typically allow for someone to have a restricted driver's license that requires you to have an interlock after a DUI, but there's no guarantee of that.
Interlock device for a year. I suppose you don't
have to get it, but if you ever plan to get a license back, you have to have that interlock in for 365 consecutive days, along with not blowing hot (>.02 BAC) for the last 120 days of the installation, along with not having any other interlock "violations." For me, that was a ~$150/month expense.
I've seen horror stories from interlocks, but I didn't have any problems out of it.
Police here scan license plates religiously. Driving on suspended is another misdemeanor. People go to jail for it all the time in this county. If you're on probation at the time you pick up the driving on suspended, it's also a violation of probation.
4) Dropped by my auto insurance agent of fifteen years. My rate then doubled when I found insurance. It has since come down to what it was before.
5) Substance abuse assessment, which said there was a "92% chance I don't have a substance abuse problem." I've been a heavy drinker for fifteen years. I told them what they wanted to hear.
6) 12 hour DUI school.
7) 24 hours of roadside trash pickup.
DUI law varies significantly between states, and even within the state. Many counties in TN will plea bargain a DUI down to a reckless endangerment misdemeanor, which is usually unsupervised probation, is expungable after five years, and has no impact on your driving record, so no interlock or license suspension. Other states will do a "wet reckless."
If you get arrested for DUI in my county, you're getting that DUI unless the toxicology comes back completely clean. Also, some counties and states will let you serve on weekends, have work release, have some sort of time credit ("two for ones" or similar), house arrest, or some combination of that - here, none of that is possible for a DUI. Most other misdemeanors are eligible for work release or weekenders, but not DUI. Most get some kind of time credit. You do that time for DUI day for day here.
The only regular Uber driver in my town was falsely arrested for DUI the week after I was. He's not had a drink in over twenty years. It took nearly six months for his toxicology to come back. It was clean. The DA continued to prosecute the case. The case was eventually dismissed before trial. He was arrested again for a DUI about six months after that, but the case was thrown out quickly the second time. He's still in arbitration with the city over damages. An attorney he often drove home from the bar took the case on pro bono, because he knows the guy doesn't drink, and that there will be a nice payout after this is all over.
Word got around about what happened to him. That killed the already small Uber business in town. The part-time drivers quit because they didn't want to get falsely arrested for DUI. A brewery and a restaurant/biker bar have both shut down since I got the DUI. Another downtown restaurant that had been in business for decades also closed. I know a couple of bar owners - their business is much worse than it was a few years ago before the police got so aggressive. Even things like DoorDash and Walmart+ delivery services are largely unavailable in this city of ~50,000 because of a lack of drivers.
Many, many people end up with crazy probation requirements. I've seen plenty of horror stories out of Texas and Florida on a DUI Reddit. Daily call-ins to see if you need to take a urinalysis on that day. Random testing for ETG, which is basically a metabolite of alcohol breakdown in the body. Multiple mandated AA meetings weekly. These are often for first, alcohol-only, DUIs that didn't involve property damage or injury, involving people with no prior criminal record who don't have a substance abuse problem.
I was arrested at my home a couple hours after I came back from the bar, and was already asleep. The police repeatedly called my parents' cell phone (who are on my plan, but live a half hour away) asking where I was, and that if I didn't answer they would "kick the door down." My parents then called me. The police never called me. I don't know how the police got their number.
What killed me was that there was probably very little proof of who was actually driving my car - my guess is that I was caught driving poorly on a Ring camera in the condo complex, my license plate was captured, maybe someone knew my car, then someone called the police, but I have no idea. If the police were following me home, I'd think they would have pulled me over.
You really have no idea of the evidence against you unless you commit to taking the case to trial - at least into discovery, with all the associated legal fees. Even if you're innocent, know you're innocent, you're set up to lose by the system. You and your defense attorney are at a disadvantage, and will not know the evidence the state has against you, to make an assessment of whether taking a plea is to your advantage. I still have no idea what the evidence was against me, other than my BAC, and some unflattering police body cam footage,
in my house.
My attorney thought the case was an easy win at trial. He made various poor decisions in the process that I didn't approve of - he seemed like the right fit at the time, but was clearly a lousy attorney. I had no confidence that he'd win the case. It was likely going to be dragged out another six months to a year to set a trial. I'd have needed a new attorney and bring that person up to speed. Legal fees alone through trial in circuit court would have been twice what I've paid for the whole case - legal fees in general sessions court, probation/court costs, interlock costs, increased insurance costs, etc. Court costs would have been much higher in circuit court. I would have been out at least another $15,000. If I lost, I probably would have gotten a more severe penalty.
Even though I think I "had a case," and the facts were "legally interesting" and probably quite weak, I couldn't afford to take it to trial. I took the plea to minimize the penalties and move on.
The attorney was disappointed that I didn't take the case to trial after I took the plea in court that day. I told him that the jury pool in this area is comprised of the same people who voted in these hardass prosecutors and DA. You're not going to win a case here - "officer testimony" is basically good enough for this area of hyper conservative police-worshippers to vote to convict. Throw a BAC in there - and you're done. Best I can tell, other than probably some erratic driving of my car, they had no proof that
I, personally, was driving that car. If the local politics were different, or this same case happened in another area, I might have taken the case to trial because I do think there was reasonable doubt that I was personally driving that car while intoxicated.
I'll say this - if I didn't have a fairly cushy WFH job, there's no way I could have survived the first six months after the DUI professionally. I had to take a week off for the jail sentence. There was probably the equivalent of two to three business days spent in court and meeting with attorneys. A worker with a standard 8-5 onsite job would likely have been fired, even if they don't drive as part of the job. Oh, and you have to maintain employment as a condition of employment - don't, for any reason, and it's a VOP and likely back to jail.
On the "banning people from alcohol," I know VA has an "interdicted persons" registry. Other states probably have something similar.
Did this experience make me stop drinking? Absolutely not. I no longer drink out unless someone else is driving, or I get an Uber. If I drank more than six beers the night before, I always check my breathalyzer if I need to drive before noon or so. If I need to drive early in the morning, I either don't drink or don't drink more than six light beers the night before. I never drive with anything but a 0.00% BAC now. If anything, the stress of it all made me drink more in private.
It
has made me
extremely bitter regarding the police. I was never a "thin blue line" guy, but the police here are extremely aggressive and, in many cases, are just looking for any excuse at all to arrest someone.
I live in one of the reddest areas of a deep red state. The way this county operates is the logical endpoint of modern "conservatism" - a police state with their boots on your neck. I see all sorts of wild stories around here regarding police overreach.
I've been a heavy drinker for the better part of fifteen years. I only drink beer - which is probably the reason my blood work is normal - I'd be a mess if I had a taste for liquor. With that said, marijuana/Delta 8 usage, almost always in edible or water soluble form, was the only thing that helped me drink a lot less voluntarily. For awhile, I was using the edibles a couple of days on weeknights, sober a few days, and drinking socially on weekends sometimes. When I couldn't use the edibles or a marijuana seltzer on probation, I actually went back to heavy drinking.
Once I took the plea and got out of jail, life was pretty much normal. The probation officer was a really good guy. The interlock became routine. Lots of people come out of the "post-jail" phase with BS probation requirements that are designed more to trip them up than help them out.
Most people who get a DUI probably aren't alcoholics. My guess is that most people who get a first don't get a second. A first means you made a poor decision, but those who get a second are probably more likely to get third and subsequent DUIs. Those are the people that really need help.
I still don't see what good it does to make a first-time, alcohol-only DUI offender, call in every day for a UA, throw them in jail long enough to cause them to lose their jobs, then violate them for a job loss, not allowing the DUI to ever be sealed/expunged, and burden them so heavily they go from making a poor choice that lead to the DUI, to going into the poorhouse, locked up for BS VOPs, etc.
Let them do weekends or work release so they can keep their livelihood coming in. Take their license for awhile - mandate an interlock for awhile. Beyond that, as long as there was no injury or major property damage, move on. A simple DUI shouldn't be a career ender for people who don't drive for a living, or send them into a cycle of jail, poverty, addiction to harder substances from the additional stress caused by the DUI, etc.
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