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An exaggeration. Compared to other animals, bears are actually pretty slow. Wolves are faster and more agile, which is why they are seldom hurt or killed in scraps with grizzlies, and cougars are much faster. A healthy adult deer or elk is way too quick for a bear to catch, easily outrunning one. The best estimates from the experts puts a grizzlies top speed at between 25-30 mph. If that seems slow, consider a couple of things. First, that is still faster than a world class Olympic sprinter can run. Next, a bear coming at you at 25 mph will appear to be moving very, very fast. If he starts from 30 yards away, he will be on you in less than 3 seconds, very little time to react and get off a good shot, and the bear might be closer than that when it starts it's charge and you see it.
Some experts disagree, since like humans not all bears run at the same speed. So a 25-30MPH figure is a "safe" guess or average. A biologist at Denali National park recorded a grizzly running parallel to his truck at over 35MPH. It's a well known fact that a grizzly bear on a full charge can reach 35 MPH. It's on a long run that they can't run as fast as they can on a charge.
A biologist at Denali National park recorded a grizzly running parallel to his truck at over 35MPH. It's a well known fact that a grizzly bear on a full charge can reach 35 or more MPH. It's on a long run that they can't run as fast, which is not the case on a full charge.
A Grizz momma and two cubs averaged 25mph -28mph for two miles.
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From observing grizzlies and having seen them, starting from a standstill, hurl themselves with tremendous speed upon an approaching rival, there is little room in my mind for the thought that they are "slow moving creatures." Grizzlies are powerful beasts, and as evidenced by the aforementioned reports, have considerable endurance, for covering two miles at from 25 to 28 miles per hour proves a stamina that would certainly try the best of horses.
Now, consider. Ursain Bolt at a sprint reaches an average of 23mph for only 100m. Roger Bannister ran a mile in under just 4 minutes. So the difference in the two speeds (endurance to sprint) is 53% increase for a sprint over endurance. If a Grizz is moving at 28mph endurance pace, and we use the same increase as humans that would leave us with a sprint speed of 43mph (at 25mph endurance it's 38mph), which in my estimation is around the range of speed I've seen.
Now when Momma bear and cubs are wandering around eating berries, they're slow and lethargic, after all what have they got to worry about? But when they wanna move, they can really move.
At the end of the day though in relation to the thread, which would you rather rely on, an estimation of a bear charge at just under 45mph, or an estimation of 30mph? If you're wrong on the 45mph you have a little more time to do something else, but if you're wrong on the 30mph you don't have enough time to even do what you planned. In the situation related to the thread, having too much time is a good idea, not enough time is probably a very poor idea.
From what I have read, outrunning a bear is only going to work for a very fast human and a very slow bear.
For handgun, again from what I have read, a .44 Mag is about the minimum that can be counted on for a quick enough stop to do any good. If you are looking for an excuse to buy a 454 Casull, this would be a good one. You will need to practice with whatever bear medicine wheelgun you buy, remember you are no more armed because you have a revolver than you are a musician because you own a violin.
Something like a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 with a heavy hard cast bullet (+P type load not for Springfield rifles) is a *lot* better than any handgun.
I'm not aware of any auto-loading pistol that shoots a round powerful enough for bear protection.
Probably more important than what you carry is what you do. Be alert, don't wander to within 14' of the bear before you realize it's a bear.
From what I have read, outrunning a bear is only going to work for a very fast human and a very slow bear.
For handgun, again from what I have read, a .44 Mag is about the minimum that can be counted on for a quick enough stop to do any good. If you are looking for an excuse to buy a 454 Casull, this would be a good one. You will need to practice with whatever bear medicine wheelgun you buy, remember you are no more armed because you have a revolver than you are a musician because you own a violin.
Something like a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 with a heavy hard cast bullet (+P type load not for Springfield rifles) is a *lot* better than any handgun.
I'm not aware of any auto-loading pistol that shoots a round powerful enough for bear protection.
Probably more important than what you carry is what you do. Be alert, don't wander to within 14' of the bear before you realize it's a bear.
Google "Gunsite Bear Rules".
Regardless of gun caliber or type, the bullet design is what really matters. For example, a .22LR solid will out-penetrate a regular (lead) .22LR bullet. So if one decides to use a handgun or pistol for bear defense, at least load it with ammo that provide the most penetration possible. In this case use hard-cast bullets.
Between a .357 Magnum revolver and a .45 ACP for bear defense at close range (a tent as told by the OP), the .45 offers the advantage of being able to shoot more rounds as long as time allows. You have to keep in mind that more than likely one won't hear a bear breaking into the tent in the middle of the night, and that if it's very dark already one can't see it. In such a case I prefer any gun that allows me to fire the greatest number of rounds per second, hoping that one or more of the rounds connects. Now, during the day and outside in a place where I may be able to aim the gun properly, yes a long gun makes more sense.
While moose hunting in Alaska my hunting partners and I spend two to three weeks out there. My hunting rifle is a .338WM loaded with 225-grain TSX, but I also keep a few rounds with 275-grain A-Frame just in case I decide to hunt bears alone. Along the .338WM I keep a 7-1/2" barreled .454 Casull that's also loaded with hard cast ammo, and only to be use at very close range. When berry picking I usually carry a Marlin .45-70 loaded with hard cast ammo, but my 1911 .45ACP loaded with hard cast ammo is always with me. I also prefer the .45 when large packs of wolves are near, which happens quite often where I hunt at, and often when long gun is difficult to handle in a narrow trail.
A Grizz momma and two cubs averaged 25mph -28mph for two miles.
Now, consider. Ursain Bolt at a sprint reaches an average of 23mph for only 100m. Roger Bannister ran a mile in under just 4 minutes. So the difference in the two speeds (endurance to sprint) is 53% increase for a sprint over endurance. If a Grizz is moving at 28mph endurance pace, and we use the same increase as humans that would leave us with a sprint speed of 43mph (at 25mph endurance it's 38mph), which in my estimation is around the range of speed I've seen.
Now when Momma bear and cubs are wandering around eating berries, they're slow and lethargic, after all what have they got to worry about? But when they wanna move, they can really move.
At the end of the day though in relation to the thread, which would you rather rely on, an estimation of a bear charge at just under 45mph, or an estimation of 30mph? If you're wrong on the 45mph you have a little more time to do something else, but if you're wrong on the 30mph you don't have enough time to even do what you planned. In the situation related to the thread, having too much time is a good idea, not enough time is probably a very poor idea.
Good points. I have read several accounts of bears moving over 30 MPH (from 30-40), but the experts have guessed that the average high speed is around 30MPH for a bear running a long distance. Some of these have been recorded using automobiles. But what cannot be recorded is the sudden dash of a bear charging a short distance, which should be greater. Moose can run pretty fast from a bear, but if the bear charges at close range, it has to move quite faster than just a gallop on the tundra.
I have also read reports where a bear running on a paved road was clocked at 30MPH. Can you imagine how fast the same bear can run at if it can do it on a dirt road where it can dig its claws to propel itself forward?
I never assume anything about what the bear experts say about bears, except as follows: the best bear defenses are your wits, and then good luck.
It occurs to me that I've kind of let my thought process get stuck in a rut. I've gotten used to thinking that having 9 rounds loaded, as well as a quicker reload, would be an advantage - but the reality is that in any circumstance in which I would actually be defending myself against a charging bear, I'm not going to have time to reload. I may not even have time to squeeze off all 9 rounds. The 6 rounds in my Dan may be all I have time for anyway, so maybe I am better off going with the best available .357 round.
Maybe I should rethink my choice of caliber. I just get used to the .45; it's my "beater gun," my favorite handgun, the one I feel most accustomed to and comfortable with. It's easier to pack than the long-barreled .357, and draws quicker and cleaner. I'm just more used to carrying it around, and it's the one I keep next to the bed for home defense (with different loads, of course.) Just seemed like a natural transition to keep it in the tent next to my sleeping bag. The .357 might be a better selection, though.
I don't know how familiar you are with the Dan Wesson, but it has interchangeable barrels. If I swap out the 6-inch barrel for a 4-inch, would I be losing anything significant in terms of muzzle velocity? In this application, that is? A range of less than 10 feet? I don't think accuracy would be that much of an issue at that range, but it would make it easier to pack and to draw quickly.
I think you just answered your own question. If the .45 is your favorite, most accustomed, comfortable firearm, then that's the one you want in a high-stress situation like a charging bear. A well placed shot with either caliber (.357 or .45) should stun and at least stop the bear allowing an additional round or two to finish the job. As you said, at that range barrel length would have minimal difference on velocity. Good luck and here's hoping you don't run into that situation in the first place!
I think you just answered your own question. If the .45 is your favorite, most accustomed, comfortable firearm, then that's the one you want in a high-stress situation like a charging bear. A well placed shot with either caliber (.357 or .45) should stun and at least stop the bear allowing an additional round or two to finish the job. As you said, at that range barrel length would have minimal difference on velocity. Good luck and here's hoping you don't run into that situation in the first place!
I believe that I have read the best answer I have seen for a long time. In tother words, whichever gun one is the most proficient with, that's the best one. It certainly applies to hunting, too.
i only find myself in potential bear country when hiking to waterfalls for some photo opps in the SC/GA mountains; of course in fall when the colors are peak but its also hunting season lol.
From what i'm gathering in this thread (which has been informative) is that while i can carry my 9 (largest caliber i own and am comfortable with at this stage) it would likely be of minimal use; i'm thinking for myself anyway i'd perhaps be better off with bear spray.
Sound about right, if one doesnt own or carry a rifle as mentioned (or minimum one of the higher caliber handguns suggested), spray may be more of a deterrent then some rounds from a 9mm especially at close quarters?
Just curious. thx!
i only find myself in potential bear country when hiking to waterfalls for some photo opps in the SC/GA mountains; of course in fall when the colors are peak but its also hunting season lol.
From what i'm gathering in this thread (which has been informative) is that while i can carry my 9 (largest caliber i own and am comfortable with at this stage) it would likely be of minimal use; i'm thinking for myself anyway i'd perhaps be better off with bear spray.
Sound about right, if one doesnt own or carry a rifle as mentioned (or minimum one of the higher caliber handguns suggested), spray may be more of a deterrent then some rounds from a 9mm especially at close quarters?
Just curious. thx!
Bear spray is an excellent alternative and very effective.
Matter of fact, for women that live alone and are absolutely dead set against having a firearm, I recommend they stage 3 or 4 cans of bear spray around the house. I've seen bear spray used on a man. He was about 6'2", maybe 240, built like a football player. It dropped him in his tracks and he was taken to the hospital with respiratory failure. He recovered, but it took a couple weeks. Then he was carted off to jail.
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