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The young always feel invincible if not youthfully ignorant by attributing their good health to vitamins and homeopathic, since you used the allopathic term.
The young want to know why they get sniffles and then get mad that a doctor can't tell them why they have snots.
As you get older that youthful ignorance will go away. You also won't be using terms like allopathic medicine. There are real doctors out there simply called doctors, not allopathic doctors. There's no homeopathic nor naturopathic hospitals.
"Healthy people are treated like cash cows"? You are referring to the alternative healthcare industry.
I am 70, and I feel exactly the same way as the original poster. When I was young I trusted doctors, but that trust was eroded over the years as I saw how useless they can be. For one thing, your MD does not have the time to research your health problems. We have the motivation, and we make the time, if we are suffering.
There is both mainstream and alternative health information online. We can see all different perspectives and compare. And unusual diseases will probably not be known to your MD. You can probably find it online though.
Interesting I'm just lucky I guess haven't been to a doctor since my polio shot in the early 50's.My wife was a nurse and had our children at home.She said hospitals were for sick people and she was not sick just pregnant.
Ok, it's your decision, and your health. Personally, I have done more or less the same thing for decades. Unless you develop a chronic illness, there is very little docs can do for you. Someone mentioned strep throat but that goes away on its own whether you take antibiotics or not. Antibiotics may shorten the duration, but I'm not aware of any studies that conclusively show that, I'm aware of this meta-analysis that showed a shorter course of antibiotics vs longer course had no impact: https://journals.lww.com/ebp/Citatio...enting.16.aspx
Anyways, as you embark on this, you will need blood work. You can get that at any lab, and you can see a doc to help you analyze it, or if you wish to do it yourself (like I do), I recommend Lab Values by Mastenbjork. If you cannot understand this simple book, then you will need a doc to analyze your blood work.
Like everything in life, there is always a happy balance. Likewise, some people see their docs too much and others too little, try to find a nice balance.
Also, the key to health and longevity is not seeing your doc X times a year, but what you do everyday. Your diet, your exercise, your sleep. There is no medicine one can take to make them live long, healthy lives if they're not already doing these 3 things right.
YES. Health is mostly our own responsibility. MDs often tell their patients it's the luck of genetics whether they get one of the common diseases or not. NO, that is either ignorance or a lie. Genetics is involved in all health problems to some degree, and is a major factor in a small number of diseases. But MOST of the common diseases are caused by LIFESTYLE.
It seems like almost everyone around my age (I am 70) is getting knee replacements, or cortisone shots in joints. So many are suffering. All because they never were told you have to STRETCH to prevent severe arthritis. Just one example.
MDs will NOT teach you how to not be overweight, how to not get diabetes or heart disease. Etc. That is OUR responsibility.
With regard to laboratory work, I post on several sites with one being medical reddit. People way over emphasize the lab work and look at every little outlier as somehow being of massive significance and they just aren't with the ones that I have seen posted. Most of those people have symptoms.
In general one interprets laboratory work within a clinical context and if that clinical context is one where the person is asymptomatic then one is screwed when values are outside the reference range. Most of the time those tests are false positives which one would expect. One looks for other tests within the general panel or elsewhere to confirm the abnormality. Most of the time they are not implying a high probability of a false positive.
Even if an abnormality is confirmed then one looks at outcome and actions taken. One will often wait until the values are clinically significant or are generating symptoms before treating. One can detect chronic lymphocytic leukemia early on but one won't do anything until the count gets really high or is generating symptoms.
The general probability of detecting a significant clinical disorder with random blind testing is extremely low in the asymptomatic person. It is not cost effective and of questionable use.
The other main consideration is the quality of life one takes on when detecting laboratory abnormalities in the asymptomatic that causes the person to eventually become a hypochondriac. One become hyper vigilant and over anxious in being labeled as having a disease in waiting.
They did a study by blind testing people with a TSH and detecting a small fraction of people with subclinical hypothyroidism. Before the testing they did health survey questions about health. Half of the people were then told they had subclinical hypothyroidism while the other half with subclinical hypothyroidism were not told they had it. They followed both and then addressed questions again about how they felt. Those not told said they felt fine while the ones who were told their TSH was elevated took on a sick patient personality and felt miserable with a long list of complaints.
Medicine is symptom based in order to evaluate laboratory tests and if one is trying to do the reverse then it can fall apart.
So that's why we should not bother with yearly checkups, as long as we feel ok.
With regard to laboratory work, I post on several sites with one being medical reddit. People way over emphasize the lab work and look at every little outlier as somehow being of massive significance and they just aren't with the ones that I have seen posted. Most of those people have symptoms.
In general one interprets laboratory work within a clinical context and if that clinical context is one where the person is asymptomatic then one is screwed when values are outside the reference range. Most of the time those tests are false positives which one would expect. One looks for other tests within the general panel or elsewhere to confirm the abnormality. Most of the time they are not implying a high probability of a false positive.
Even if an abnormality is confirmed then one looks at outcome and actions taken. One will often wait until the values are clinically significant or are generating symptoms before treating. One can detect chronic lymphocytic leukemia early on but one won't do anything until the count gets really high or is generating symptoms.
The general probability of detecting a significant clinical disorder with random blind testing is extremely low in the asymptomatic person. It is not cost effective and of questionable use.
The other main consideration is the quality of life one takes on when detecting laboratory abnormalities in the asymptomatic that causes the person to eventually become a hypochondriac. One become hyper vigilant and over anxious in being labeled as having a disease in waiting.
They did a study by blind testing people with a TSH and detecting a small fraction of people with subclinical hypothyroidism. Before the testing they did health survey questions about health. Half of the people were then told they had subclinical hypothyroidism while the other half with subclinical hypothyroidism were not told they had it. They followed both and then addressed questions again about how they felt. Those not told said they felt fine while the ones who were told their TSH was elevated took on a sick patient personality and felt miserable with a long list of complaints.
Medicine is symptom based in order to evaluate laboratory tests and if one is trying to do the reverse then it can fall apart.
I agree almost 100% with this post (the disagreement at the end).
This is why I recommended the OP get Lab Values. It's a book written by Docs for med students. And it always puts your lab values squarely inside the clinical picture, as well as what other follow up tests you should request given lab values + clinical issues + concerns.
Now as to the disagreement. I disagree that it's not worthwhile to get your blood work while asymptomatic. If the OP had a PCP, and went just once a year, I'm sure the PCP would order a routine blood panel. It's helpful to establish what your 'normal' is and observe trends, which will aid you if problems arise (and they eventually will arise unless the OP dies suddenly in some freak accident, god forbid).
Well, OK OP. All seems well until it isn't. Say what you like. There's no law against that, but what can start off as confidence can lead to arrogance IMHO. There are those bolts out of the blue. Bodies aren't perfect. Things go wrong. I was supposedly the picture of health at age 34; profession I loved, generally happy contented life, recreational athlete with a reputation of "nature girl". No body-abusive habits, didn't even drink coffee. No need to see any sort of doctor other than a dentist for occasional cleanings for years. One day I found a lump that shouldn't be there. Ignoring it didn't make it go away. I didn't happen to be born with microscope vision so I needed an MD to find out what was going on. It turned out to be a rather aggressive cancer and it had already spread to the surrounding lymph nodes by the time it became noticeable. I had no "risk factors" for the disease either other than gender. If I hadn't gone to a doctor to diagnose that lump, most likely I'd be dead. That was over 28 years ago. I'm very glad to have had those extra 28 years.
Last edited by Parnassia; 08-02-2023 at 02:35 PM..
Well, OK OP. All seems well until it isn't. Say what you like. There's no law against that, but what can start off as confidence can lead to arrogance IMHO. There are those bolts out of the blue. Bodies aren't perfect. Things go wrong. I was supposedly the picture of health at age 34; profession I loved, generally happy contented life, recreational athlete with a reputation of "nature girl". No body-abusive habits, didn't even drink coffee. No need to see any sort of doctor other than a dentist for occasional cleanings for years. One day I found a lump that shouldn't be there. Ignoring it didn't make it go away. I didn't happen to be born with microscope vision so I needed an MD to find out what was going on. It turned out to be a rather aggressive cancer and it had already spread to the surrounding lymph nodes by the time it became noticeable. I had no "risk factors" for the disease either other than gender. If I hadn't gone to a doctor to diagnose that lump, most likely I'd be dead. That was over 28 years ago. I'm very glad to have had those extra 28 years.
I don't think anyone here is saying allopathic medicine is useless. It can save lives sometimes. However, most things it cannot do, and there has been way too much faith in the medical industry.
In your case, it is probably unusual for an aggressive cancer to actually be cured by surgery and chemo, so you were lucky. However, early cancer can be removed by surgery and with luck will never return.
Well, OK OP. All seems well until it isn't. Say what you like. There's no law against that, but what can start off as confidence can lead to arrogance IMHO. There are those bolts out of the blue. Bodies aren't perfect. Things go wrong. I was supposedly the picture of health at age 34; profession I loved, generally happy contented life, recreational athlete with a reputation of "nature girl". No body-abusive habits, didn't even drink coffee. No need to see any sort of doctor other than a dentist for occasional cleanings for years. One day I found a lump that shouldn't be there. Ignoring it didn't make it go away. I didn't happen to be born with microscope vision so I needed an MD to find out what was going on. It turned out to be a rather aggressive cancer and it had already spread to the surrounding lymph nodes by the time it became noticeable. I had no "risk factors" for the disease either other than gender. If I hadn't gone to a doctor to diagnose that lump, most likely I'd be dead. That was over 28 years ago. I'm very glad to have had those extra 28 years.
I think (or would hope) everyone would seek medical care if they get an unexplained lump or some clinical manifestation of a potentially chronic or life ending issue, I guess the question is are yearly check-ins important, or just a waste of time/money?
If the OP breaks a leg and needs surgery, I'm sure he won't play doctor. But who knows
Interesting I'm just lucky I guess haven't been to a doctor since my polio shot in the early 50's.My wife was a nurse and had our children at home.She said hospitals were for sick people and she was not sick just pregnant.
Hospitals are not just for "sick" people. The times I've been in one was for an emergency like a dislocated hip or broken bone. Appendectomy or kidney stone---I don't know if that is considered "sick". Definitely life-threatening though. I was going to ignore the kidney stone since I had no insurance then, but the doc said "you'll die", so there went 10 grand. The only saving grace about that was I would have paid the same 10 grand in insurance payments over the years.
Yes, the system is broken, but in emergencies, it's a god-send.
I'll start by saying at age 29, you're in what I will call a "honeymoon period" when it comes to physical health. From about age 20 through age 32, I could number on one hand the number of medical appointments I had (I think one of them was a life insurance physical). Its easy in that age group to believe you are nearly indestructible. The problem is that it doesn't last.
My breaking point came when my kids came along. If you have kids, you'll learn quickly that they get sick and bring illness home and you'll get it. No amount of vitamins or health food is going to cure a strep infection and I probably had them as many as ten times before my kids sort of grew out of them. I'll also add its dangerous to put off treating such an infection. The bacteria can cause you to develop severe complications if untreated.
I think there are many problems with our health care system myself. The costs involved are my major complaint. However, there are many many excellent practitioners delivering a wide assortment of medical services everyday. Its a really a shame to not understand that and not take advantage of it.
I'll give a couple of examples. My wife and I travel internationally a great deal. My old doctor retired and the one I am with now is new and younger. She saw we liked to travel and after making sure our hepatitis shots were up to date also got us a typhoid immunization (given in pill form). Another one is more personal, but let's say at age 63 I need a little help with some intimate issues. The same physician found a way to get me a medication that helped at extremely low cost.
Don't fall into the trap of thinking this system can't benefit you. Even if you seem healthy now, I'm telling you things will change.
Here's the thing, for the one time thing like strep which are more standard illnesses, it seems like telehealth is a good backup, especially if it's friday evening when it really hits, they seem to be good getting a prescription ASAP.
For the good practitioners, the thing that scares me is 1. How do you know who is good and 2. It takes years to establish a working connection. So if I was settled, owned a house, had kids etc that makes sense, but that's not the case for a lot of people. It seems like rural care is especially more fraught than living in Rochester MN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medical Lab Guy
The young always feel invincible if not youthfully ignorant by attributing their good health to vitamins and homeopathic, since you used the allopathic term.
The young want to know why they get sniffles and then get mad that a doctor can't tell them why they have snots.
As you get older that youthful ignorance will go away. You also won't be using terms like allopathic medicine. There are real doctors out there simply called doctors, not allopathic doctors. There's no homeopathic nor naturopathic hospitals.
"Healthy people are treated like cash cows"? You are referring to the alternative healthcare industry.
Here's the thing, the entire system is set up to fix something that's broke, not tweak to make something better, hence allopathic. If I go to a physical, the conversation isn't how can we optimize from where you are, it's ok you didn't fit any high risk boxes, see you next year.
At least with homeopathic medicine, the price is displayed up front, I can see what I'm walking into. And I likely won't have to deal with godawful insurance. With the standard healthcare system, it's a land mine field, you don't know where you're gonna get slapped with some bill. I had a dermatologist appointment for a cosmetic removal of a dot (angioma). Set up the appointment, waited 45 minutes past the "start time" and the doctor had a 3 minute conversation with me that said, "we don't have the tool, go talk to Santa Fe and schedule with them". I got a $160 bill ($325 pre insurance) for a literal 3 minute conversation to clarify what their website didn't say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaikikiWaves
Ok, it's your decision, and your health. Personally, I have done more or less the same thing for decades. Unless you develop a chronic illness, there is very little docs can do for you. Someone mentioned strep throat but that goes away on its own whether you take antibiotics or not. Antibiotics may shorten the duration, but I'm not aware of any studies that conclusively show that, I'm aware of this meta-analysis that showed a shorter course of antibiotics vs longer course had no impact: https://journals.lww.com/ebp/Citatio...enting.16.aspx
Anyways, as you embark on this, you will need blood work. You can get that at any lab, and you can see a doc to help you analyze it, or if you wish to do it yourself (like I do), I recommend Lab Values by Mastenbjork. If you cannot understand this simple book, then you will need a doc to analyze your blood work.
Like everything in life, there is always a happy balance. Likewise, some people see their docs too much and others too little, try to find a nice balance.
Also, the key to health and longevity is not seeing your doc X times a year, but what you do everyday. Your diet, your exercise, your sleep. There is no medicine one can take to make them live long, healthy lives if they're not already doing these 3 things right.
Yes, there is a balancing act. It seems like the main element of history is bloodwork, and even there, it's on the individual really to keep track of their own records cause the system will lose them. That's the thing is good groceries and a health club / gym payment and a lower stress job seem to be a magnitude better investment than a healthcare facility.
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