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Thank you all so much for your responses! It's exactly the kind of information we're looking for. I didn't mean to hijack this thread, but hope this info is of interest to the OP as well. The mill project is really exciting and will jump start even more economic development for the area. I'm glad we know about the plans for it beforehand, because seeing that kind of blight can really taint an areas appeal quickly. Gosh, reading about all this growth, city government's positive attitude toward economic development and the comparisons to Asheville makes me want to look into buying a little property up there.
I am actually very scared that JC is getting too nice too quickly and screwing my plans for cheap housing I hope to tap into in 8 years.
Hello friend. I answer these questions from the perspective of a single 50-something who grew up in Michigan and then lived in Houston for 25 years, and I really miss Houston. After living there and then coming to Johnson City six years ago, I'm still in shock. It's been like falling into the Twilight Zone or a time warp. So compared to a lot of the feedback you've gotton, mine will be negative.
Religion: We are very much live and let live, but not religious. I am worried our family may have a hard time fitting in the community because of this.
I'll never forget my first week in my new job when some of the first questions I was asked had to do with "whether I had a church home". I would never have been asked such a thing in Houston. What was I supposed to say? Would it hurt my career if I gave the wrong answer? If you're not an evangelical whose church is your life, you will be in the minority here. You won't be overtly harrassed but you'll sense the confusion and pity. You might even hear "I'll pray for you".
Schools: The schools seem OKAY, but not amazing. I'm a little bit worried about that, specifically middle and high schools. Someone change my mind?
I don't have kids, but if I had, I wouldn't think coming here would be a good idea. At some point, they might have to deal with pressure about religion and politics.
Friends: Everything I seem to read says that people are superficially friendly in the state. we are really looking for a great community we can in the next few years buy a house in, and really settle down and feel part of.
Most people who were born here or nearby will never fully accept you, I think because they have a fear that outsiders will change their "great America". Coming to Johnson City is like stepping back into the 60s or 70s. You'll laugh your head off at the local TV ads. You can make friends - good friends - but will need to be creative about where to find people like you.
Politics: We try not to get into politics too much, but we are pretty liberal on most things.
This has been my greatest source of angst. I'm not a right-wing evangelical gun nut, so I feel out of place here. It's not that there aren't liberals here, but you have to be careful how you find each other. You're more likely to find like-minded people around ETSU. And a sad reality is that if you vote for a non-Republican, you will be throwing your vote away. As much of a whack job as Trump is, he'll probably win the Tri-Cities.
City to Country: We currently live in a very metropolitan area, you can pretty much bike, take a bus (I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS), or drive 15 minutes and be anywhere you need to be. I understand that TN is much more rural and spread out, and that we will need a second car. How far away is everything generally?
This is not a very good walkable or bikable area. If you stick to your neighborhood you'll be fine, but if you want to go farther and leave from your home, you'll hit major roads where it's not safe because of the traffic. Speaking of traffic, the worst drivers in the known universe are here. You will be able to get most places fairly quickly by car, but you will need all of your defensive driving skills on high alert. Here's why, straight from the Tennessee DMV: "The Tennessee Department of Safety (DOS) only requires you to complete a driver's education course if you have been convicted of multiple moving violations while on your intermediate restricted license. However, while it is not required in order to obtain your permit or license, Driver's Ed is a valuable resource that can help you become a responsible and safe driver." NO requirement for driver's ed? Unbelievable! But it sure explains a lot.
Apartments: Currently leaning towards Knob Hill Apartments, but considering Country Shore Apartments, and Swadley Park, Creek Side Village as well. Does anyone have any experiencing with these places?
I don't since I bought a house right away. Speaking of which, if you do move here, don't buy a house like I did - it is the stupidest financial decision I've ever made. But it explains why I don't just leave since I dislike this area so much. It takes months and months to sell a home here unless you sell at a loss (depending on when you bought, of course). And I'm not of an age where I can afford a big loss. On the other hand, is it worse to lose money or lose my mind? Hmmm...
Do you think we should be trying to find a place in Johnson City, or on the outskirts in another city?
If I knew then what I know now, I'd never move here. If you're set on Tennessee, I'd think about Knoxville, which has more job prospects, a very good university, and has plenty of nearby hiking areas. It's also more diverse (another thing that came as a shock is how undiverse JoCy is). And racism and gender discrimination are right out in the open here.
What places should we AVOID like the plague?
Johnson City, Bristol, Kingsport... But seriously, if you want to live in a place that's more in line with who you are, consider Asheville, NC. I go down to Asheville (an hour drive) when I'm desperate for normalcy. It has a much higher cost of living than Johnson City, but is a diverse and welcoming area, and there is much better access to mountain hiking because of the abundance of trailheads. In Johnson City, depending on where you live, the nearest trailhead might be a half hour drive away.
Heat: Lots of comments on heat and humidity, which we are trying to escape. Has anyone been to FL and can give me a comparison of the two?
After living in Houston for many years, which is considered a very high-humidity area like Florida, the humidity here makes me feel more miserable. Stepping outside in the mornings during the summer turns me into an instant sweat ball whether I move much or not. You can actually see the steam rising from the vegetation. Fortunately, it becomes less humid as the day progresses. Also, bear in mind that there's winter here. We've had subzero days, and heavy snow days, and freezing rain/snow days.
Crime: I feel less safe here in this small town than I did in Houston. There is a lot of domestic and other kinds of violence (lots of robberies at gunpoint, especially of pharmacies). It seems every day there's a news story about a murder. And lots of homegrown meth labs.
BUT, given all that, this could still be an OK move for you since both you and your husband will be in the medical field and there should continue to be enough job opportunities in that field. You might want to contact a place like Manpower to double-check whether what I just said is still true. And if your husband is finishing college, ETSU is relatively cheap compared to other universities, and he will be able to meet people with more diverse backgrounds and viewpoints.
If you made it this far I think we should be friends!
Ditto backatcha! While it would be nice to have another like-minded person move here, I wouldn't wish it on you. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!
Seriously though, thank you so much for any/all advice. It is greatly appreciated.
I wanted to make sure you got another perspective. Now, I anticipate that some people on this forum will pounce on me and argue every point. To whom I will say in advance: please do continue to enjoy your life here, but think how you might feel if you moved to Manhattan or Detroit.
I wouldn't argue ALL those points, but a few, sure:
- Selling a home takes months or only at a loss. To the OP, I think I would speak with a trusted realtor or do some research on the MLS for yourself. In older or more depressed areas of the Tri-Cities this may be true. If you buy a home in Bluff City, buyer beware. For other parts, I doubt this is true at all.
- Worst drivers in the known universe: This is a universal complaint for folks no matter where they live. I moved from Johnson City to Memphis and thought I was going to have a coronary every time I pulled out of my driveway. But eventually I adjusted. Each region has its own driving culture and it's best to adapt or get out of the way. Tri-Cities has many of the hallmarks of a smaller metro, like many folks driving below the speed limit in the left lane, folks don't exactly know how merge ramps or yield signs or roundabouts work, etc.
- Majority evangelical Christians: This is definitely not true. For the upstate as a whole, I'd say a strong plurality are evangelical Christians. For the urbanized areas, especially Johnson City, this is most definitely not true. Majority Christian, probably, but there's lots of Presbyterians, Episcopalians/Anglicans, Catholics, etc. When I lived there, most of the folks I knew were agnostic or atheist. But, I was a student at ETSU and in the 20-ish age bracket, so my experience was probably different.
Most of the rest of your points I agree with, more or less. State and national politics go conservative/Republican, basically no matter what. Local elections are possibly a different matter especially if they're non-partisan. The area is difficult to navigate as a pedestrian, cyclist, or mass transit user. It's a low population metro area spread out across multiple counties.
I think Vox's comments are appropriate. For a liberal who is not religious, this area can be frustrating. In the eyes of a local, asking someone if they have a church home is a very welcoming gesture. To others (like Vox), this can be taken as intrusive. It is what it is- this is a very religious area and that is one of the reasons that I like it so much and it will be the reason why some people don't like it. As for politics, yes Trump will win the Tri-Cities and he will easily win Tennessee. If that thought amazes you, you probably won't like it here. Clinton will win Knoxville (maybe), Chattanooga, Nashville, and Memphis and lose everywhere else in between. That isn't a political statement- its just an indication of the current and historical political arena for this state.
As for housing, Vox is pretty accurate. Some people are used to buying a house and moving quickly, realizing a large gain in a short amount of time. It matters a bit what size/price/age/location house are are talking about, but generally speaking we don't have large increases in value in short amounts of time. Example: my sister in law bought a 1,100 sf 1960's brick ranch in Johnson City about 5 years ago in a neighborhood of similarly sized homes. The home's value is basically identical to when she bought it. The same goes for my house, which is about a 2,200 sf brick ranch also in Johnson City- bought 7 years ago. If someone tries to sell one of these houses within 5-7 years, it is very common to either break even or maybe lose a bit of money on the transaction after the realtor's commissions and other closing fees. It is also not uncommon for a reasonably priced house to sit on the market for several months.
As for crime, I would suggest that anyone compare the weekly arrest reports (released by the county jail online) to Houston. The Johnson City Police Department is VERY good- they have strong community relationships, a respected police chief, and they clear crimes with an arrest more than double the national average. Most of our arrests are for domestic violence, drugs, theft, and violation of probation- which are pretty much the most common crimes throughout the country.
Vox seems unhappy here which is fine; not everyone will like it here, especially coming from a large metro. I do think some of the issues are overblown. I came here as a college student 10 years ago and maybe it has to do with living near the university and having a diverse set of friends but religion, or in my case lack thereof, has never been an issue. I've never had it brought up at a job and never had someone ask me to church. It really wouldn't bother me if they did, though. I just don't care I accept it as part of the culture here.
Johnson City should really be looked at separate from the rest of the Tri-Cities as I just don't find it do be super conservative. There is a young population, many transplants, and a growing music/outdoor adventure scene. I mean the City is investing heavily in bike transit, building a downtown mountain bike park, and putting $10 million towards the construction of a performing arts center. I hardly think a backwater hick town would be doing these things. Not to mention a recent survey of city residents indicated a majority would support a tax increase to fund further bicycle transit options.
I would never suggest Asheville as a place to move unless you are independently wealthy. I love Asheville but it is just not a very livable place when the price of housing far outpaces average wages. Plus it is not much more diverse than Johnson City and the job market in Asheville is worse than the Tri-Cities.
I'll agree with you that houses are slow to appreciate but on the flip side, the 2008 crash wasn't as hard on the region as much of the rest of the country. I can't speak for Johnson City as a whole but I know in the Tree Streets neighborhood, many houses sell before they are even listed so it just depends on your location.
Another non-religious, liberal new-comer's perspective
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but keep in mind that when you live in a place that is a poor fit, everything tends to irritate the heck out of you.
Yes it is humid here in the summer, though I have heard this is the seventh hottest summer on record so next year will probably be better. It's also not as unpleasantly muggy as Chattanooga, Gatlinburg, or even Portland, Oregon. (The Pacific Northwest is actually fairly humid but you don't usually notice because the temps are lower. But when they heat up, miserable! And AC is in short supply there.)
Yes, many people are religious here. There's a faith section in the newspaper, a religion club in school that apparently passes out free biscuits, and when you do something dumb, people seem to comment "bless your heart!" (Or maybe that's just me!) But it's not nearly as bad here as it is in other parts of Tennessee. In Chattanooga, we once had to pause a square dance to pray with a "warrior for Christ" for relief for one of the lady's daughter's gout flare up. Religion is really in your face in that area. Here, no one seems to be that interested in my religion or lack thereof. Someone might ask what church I go to but if I tell them I'm not really a church person, they don't freak out and think I'm sacrificing kittens to Satan in my basement.
I feel a lot safer here than in many places that I have lived. There is a lot less stranger on stranger violent crime. I don't worry about drive-by's or being mugged. Yes, there is property crime. Though not as much as the other areas I've lived in. And there's violent crime but most of it seems to be people that know each other and act out. To me, if you do a good job choosing your friends, you lessen the danger even more.
As far as friends go, I've always found work and school to be the best places to meet friends. Since you're going to have a job and your husband is going to have both work and school, you should be fine. If not, there are a couple meetup groups where you can meet other JC transplants. I haven't had a problem with the locals (though I haven't tried to hang out with them outside the events we're at yet) but there are so many people here from somewhere else that you have tons of options.
It is a red state. No doubt about that. Probably the state will go for Trump. Or maybe not. There's no guarantees and if you want to change things, you just have to vote and hope. But I haven't had a conversation with anyone about politics. I don't bring it up and neither do they. Regardless of the area or its political leanings, I've always found this works out better for me.
As far as apartments go, I live just off Knob Creek so I can recommend that area. Lots of shopping on Market Street and the traffic is so light, you can get anywhere in 10-15 minutes. You will probably want a second car just because it's so much quicker to drive than take the bus and there's free parking everywhere.
Hope this info has been helpful to you. Everyone has a different take on the area, depending on where they're coming from. But I think it's a great area full of friendly people.
Living on the Tree Streets/near ETSU in urban Johnson City is a fundamentally different experience than most of the region - though small, it's the most liberal part of the area. If your liberalism is central to your life and you're uncomfortable with conservatism and are living here, it's the most logical place to move.
TN is a conservative state. This is a conservative part of a conservative state. Johnson City is more liberal than the rest of the area on the whole, but it is no San Francisco or Asheville. For people from liberal areas, it's probably going to seem quite conservative. The rest of the area will be a different world for a passionate liberal from a liberal area.
It doesn't take a genius to figure the politics of the area out. If it's a real bother to someone, they probably should find an area that fits their political views more.
I think the religion issue is entirely overblown. Yes, fifteen years ago, it was common to be asked those types of questions. As a local and someone who is not religious (but do believe in God), it is quite rare I've been asked the church/saved question out of the blue in the last five years or so. If you're neither acting interested in faith nor combative with people over it, it's unlikely it will be a real problem here.
Yes, it gets humid in the summer. So does pretty much everywhere east of the Mississippi really. It's more oppressive than Michigan or Massachusetts, but nothing like Florida. Again, this is pretty self-evident.
I think the cities have an adequate bus/bike infrastructure for the size cities they are. What small towns really have excellent public transit or biking systems? Not many.
The hiking comment is completely inaccurate. I've been up to Buffalo Mountain from ETSU in 10-15 minutes. Asheville and WNC have more, but there is enough in JC/Tri-Cities to keep one occupied for awhile. For weekend hikes, the WNC mountains are 1-2 hours away. There are plenty of lakes and rivers for water sports in the immediate area.
JC has improved to the point where I don't feel the need to go to Asheville often like I did in college ten years ago.
I agree about the schools. I see all the high ratings for the city schools and while they may be good, I just can't see Science Hill or D-B competing well against schools in far wealthier areas that achieve similar ratings, have better local economies, parents are likely in higher end employment, etc. I think I got a good education in the county system, but I graduated twelve years ago. I'd also wager maybe 20% of my teachers gave me 80% of my education, and that many of that 20% did things that would now be considered "politically incorrect," but were really beneficial to my education. Not really a local issue with that though.
The crime in the area is mostly property crime, with violent crime being confined to domestic and drug situations among people who know each other. Yes, there's a lot of it by the numbers and by the crime rate, but it ends up being a lot of the same people cycling in and out of the legal system repeatedly.
I don't get the local housing market, at all. I'm casually looking at properties and see crappy, overpriced properties that people think will sell. I see smaller, cheaper, and more updated properties often sitting as well.
Last edited by Serious Conversation; 08-28-2016 at 09:27 PM..
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Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxPopuli
Hello friend. I answer these questions from the perspective of a single 50-something who grew up in Michigan and then lived in Houston for 25 years, and I really miss Houston. After living there and then coming to Johnson City six years ago, I'm still in shock. It's been like falling into the Twilight Zone or a time warp. So compared to a lot of the feedback you've gotton, mine will be negative....
Heat: Lots of comments on heat and humidity, which we are trying to escape. Has anyone been to FL and can give me a comparison of the two?
After living in Houston for many years, which is considered a very high-humidity area like Florida, the humidity here makes me feel more miserable. Stepping outside in the mornings during the summer turns me into an instant sweat ball whether I move much or not. You can actually see the steam rising from the vegetation. Fortunately, it becomes less humid as the day progresses. Also, bear in mind that there's winter here. We've had subzero days, and heavy snow days, and freezing rain/snow days.
Crime: I feel less safe here in this small town than I did in Houston. There is a lot of domestic and other kinds of violence (lots of robberies at gunpoint, especially of pharmacies). It seems every day there's a news story about a murder. And lots of homegrown meth labs.
Here is a different perspective from another single 50 something from MI who lived in Houston before coming to TN. One who does not miss Houston at all, and is much happier in the tri-cities.
There is some humidity here in the summer but nothing like Houston. It's pretty easy to pull up a weather history and see that the dew points here in the summer are roughly 5-8 degrees cooler than Houston on average and a day to day comparison of the heat index shows a pretty good difference too. Monthly low temps for this August in Houston, mostly mid to high 70's while KPT low temps run from mid 60's to low 70's and early mornings are generally cool.
One of the main reasons I enjoy this area is because it is so much easier to be out and about and still be comfortable the majority of the year.
As a native Michigander the winters here are nothing, a few days or a week here and there that sees some snow and freezing temps. The drawback is that on the once or twice a year occasions we do get several inches of snow it tends to close everything down and it can be a bit of a wait to get residential roads cleared.
As far as crime I feel like this is one of the safest places I've lived. I do not worry about gangs, drive by shootings, knockout games, or wilding. I'm not afraid of accidentally going into neighborhoods where I might be targeted because I don't 'belong' there.
Petty property crimes, OTC drug abuse, domestic violence and meth are definitely a problem here but I doubt it's possible to find a city of any size that doesn't have it's share of those issues.
The occasions I've had to deal with the police in JC and Bristol I have found them for the most part to be polite and responsive, even for minor things. Unlike the bigger cities where all you get is a phone number where you can file a report, and no one ever actually comes out to talk to you.
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Another non-religious, liberal new-comer's perspective
