Oil Heat vs. Everything Else (Allentown, Northampton: apartment, to rent, buyers)

[thecoalman]

Does it smoke a lot when you first light it? You might have a negative draft coming down the chimney or something using it for outside air. For example if you have a furnace that is using inside air for combustion and is then expelling gases out a chimney the air it has used has to be made up from somewhere.

[Pa Dutch]

Yes it does smoke a lot. Even when we open the doors after it is lit smoke will pour out

No furnace, the whole place is electric baseboard.

[thecoalman]

If you hae a lot of smoke coming into the house I'd worry about fixing that first. You shouldn't have smoke coming into the house especially after a few minutes of it being lit. It's not uncommon for chimney to reverse draft if there is no heat in it so when you initially light the fire you might get some smoke into the house. Once the chimney starts to heat up there shouldn't be anything of significance.

There is lot of reasons you might have a poor draft. It could be partially blocked which is a severe danger because it could cause a chimney fire. When is the last time it was professionally cleaned? Other things that might cause it to not draft properly is if there is no source of outside air, if the house is very well insulated with little source for combustion air you essentially choke the chimney. You can try opening a window and see if that alleviates the problem.

As far as when it's not lit light a match inside the fireplace and see where the smoke goes. If see it come back into the house on air currents you probably have air coming down the chimney. You close the damper fully when it's not in use? That can be a problem too if it's not closing fully.

[Kefir King]

I'm outside the area PacoMartin and I am curious. Is that 10.3 cents per Kwhr the FULL COST, i.e., your TOTAL bill, taxes and all, divided by monthly Kwhr usage?
I have occasionally toyed with the idea of moving back to the Lehigh Valley and think about energy alternatives often.

(I'm NYC and we are at $.29/Kwhr (fun isn't it) so that's about $11.70 for the heat in a gallon of oil (at 100% eff.))

You can go BLIND trying to get the correct numbers from the PP&L website...like they are trying to HIDE the cost by burying it in 500 pages of gibberish.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Kefir King

I'm outside the area PacoMartin and I am curious. Is that 10.3 cents per Kwhr the FULL COST, i.e., your TOTAL bill, taxes and all, divided by monthly Kwhr usage?
I have occasionally toyed with the idea of moving back to the Lehigh Valley and think about energy alternatives often.

(I'm NYC and we are at $.29/Kwhr (fun isn't it) so that's about $11.70 for the heat in a gallon of oil (at 100% eff.))

My last electric bill was for 1819 kWh
There is a flat customer charge $8.750
Distribution is @3.364 cents per kWh = $61.19
Generation was @6.935 cents per kWh = $126.15
PA Tax Adj Surcharge -$0.24 (not sure what this is)
Total = $195.85

I did manage to lock in generation at 7 cents per kWh for the rest of the year.
The rate next month is going up to 7.993 cents per kWh.

You can shop your generation rate around to about a dozen different companies. Some offer eco generation for a higher rate. Others offer 10 cents per kWh, but with free Saturdays (the idea being that you can do all your laundry on Saturday). Others offer Time of Use plans that offer lower rates most of the time, in exchange for high rates at peak.

I have as my generator PPL EnergyPlus, LLC PA which is independent from PPL distribution. Rates are slightly different.

Looking at DOE energy site, in 2011 PA was lower than these states:
Maine
Massachusetts
Vermont
Connecticut
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
New Jersey
New York
Delaware
District of Columbia
Florida


PA was higher than these states
Maryland
Virginia
North Carolina
South Carolina
Georgia
Tennessee
Mississippi
Ohio
Michigan

[Kefir King]

So 10.76 cents per Kwhr total.
There are those in my neighborhood who would KILL for those rates.

Like I PM'd, the best returns for energy expenditures are in conservation, i.e., superinsulation.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Kefir King

So 10.76 cents per Kwhr total.
There are those in my neighborhood who would KILL for those rates.

Like I PM'd, the best returns for energy expenditures are in conservation, i.e., superinsulation.

The Department of Energy posts average rates per state (not per city). New York State is 17.50 cents/kWh and Hawaii is the highest at 24.20 cents/kWh. North Dakota is the lowest at 7.58 cents/kWh.

Maine has the lowest average household bill because they have the highest percentage of homes with oil heat. No one has a heat pump, and no one has air conditioning. But they are screwed on their home heating and the amount of money they spend on transportation from small towns.

I don't understand why the city is so high.

[Kefir King]

The Department of Energy posts average rates per state (not per city). New York State is 17.50 cents/kWh and Hawaii is the highest at 24.20 cents/kWh. North Dakota is the lowest at 7.58 cents/kWh.

Sometime these promulgated figures are for ENERGY COST alone. Sometimes they include DISTRIBUTION COSTS but NEVER do they include full taxes and fees.
That's why I always ask for the REAL cost: Total Bill/Kwhr used.
(Some New Yorkers have doubted my $.29 figure and I tell them to check their bill. The usual response it "Jesus Christ, I never knew it cost so much!"

(When I left Northern NJ last year my rate with PSE&G was $ .184)

NYC is VERY high but I have heard that LILCO (Long Island) rates are even HIGHER...but that might be hearsay.

A possible reason for the discrepancy with DOE figures is that there are a plethora of rates and these lower rated might include rated paid for street lighting (always VERY low) and large commercial and non-profit users.

edit:
I perused that data (YOI) and it seems your PA figure is spot on so assuming that the DOE numbers are accurate I can probably guess that the NY State rate is the average of NYC (half the population) and the upstate rates which might be very low given the proximity of Quebec Hydro generation? Just a guess.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Kefir King

I perused that data (YOI) and it seems your PA figure is spot on so assuming that the DOE numbers are accurate I can probably guess that the NY State rate is the average of NYC (half the population) and the upstate rates which might be very low given the proximity of Quebec Hydro generation? Just a guess.

I was quoting the 2009 figures. Here are the 2010 figures (2011 not available until November 2012).

The consumption figures seem rather low to me, so they must include a lot of apartments. Within a state (i.e. NY) there is considerable variation in rates.

Average for state: cents/kWh , kWh
New England : 16.24 , 657
Connecticut : 19.25 , 750
Maine : 15.71 , 521
Massachusetts : 14.59 , 667
New Hampshire : 16.32 , 626
Rhode Island : 15.92 , 603
Vermont : 15.57 , 576
Middle Atlantic : 15.81 , 727
New Jersey : 16.57 , 731
New York : 18.74 , 610
Pennsylvania : 12.70 , 878
Pacific Noncontiguous : 23.22 , 617
Alaska : 16.26 , 641
Hawaii : 28.10 , 601

[Kefir King]

The consumption figures seem rather low to me, so they must include a lot of apartments.

They probably seem low because almost NOBODY in the NorthEast uses electricity for heating unless there is no alternative. Gas is used if at all humanly possible. Even hot water via electricity gives me the shivers.
I swear if I had a private home I would even switch over the air conditioning to gas.