Gov. Brown: Courts *Must* Let California Slash its Public-Sector Pensions (fit in, bankrupt)

[Vic Romano]

I will believe that when he says he's against the Bullet Train. That's a waste of money. And I still don't like this year's gas tax. Now most stations are charging over $3.00 per gallon...

Pension reform already started taking hold the last few years (2012 in Riverside County). It should help long term but in the shorter term it will be tight as the employees with the older, more lucrative benefits retire.

IMHO they should start with basing pensions on (max 100% of) base pay and not include extras like overtime. Limits on cashing in PTO (paid time off). And no double dipping either. THAT'S abusive.

I am under the older plan and the pension is pretty generous. But now we pay 8% of our salary to pensions (not the case before 2012). And I do NOT get health care when I retire. Comes out of my own pocket.

[Nodpete]

I hope he gets his way with the pensions. If States, cities, etc. don't stop these outrageous giveaways it will collapse. Then those folks will be without anything.

[markg91359]

Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical

LoL breach of contract. You can't roll bacl what you are contractly obligated to provide. Only way to get out of it is bankruptcy.

I love my benifits. I don't pay for health care. 21% of my pension comes from my own pay check. But we still pay in to Social Security.

The general public is scum, and there is a reason everyone from cops to postal workers despise the public. They think they should get services for cheap LOL!!!!!

So you despise the people who pay your salary and benefits? I'm assuming you are a former state/county/city employee. That comment is very revealing and I hope not typical of public employees in general.

The reason pensions are under attack is that they are fiscally unsustainable. Jerry Brown is anything, but a conservative. Yet, even he can see the truth here.

It would make far more sense for public employees to see the reality and agree to some changes which will keep a future system solvent.

The system ought to work for more people than a few employees who happened to get onboard at the right time.

[LuvSouthOC]

I am not a state employee, and, further, am a fiscal conservative. I want the state to conserve resources where possible. However, I strenuously oppose these cuts to vested benefits and think them shameful once rights have vested. This is akin to what banana republics do.

[WizardOfRadical]

LoL no. Most of the court's budget is from fines and fees imposed by the court. Not from your tax dollars.

This is why we think the general public is scum. They actually think their taxes fund my job. Hahahahahaha

The general public is so clueless they do not even know what they are paying for. They just assume they pay for everything. This is why we do not respect rhe public. They are not worthy of reapect. They only deserve to be looked down upon.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I work in the public sector. The math for pensions is unsustainable. My employer puts in over 100% of my pay to keep the pension plan solvent. That's on the top of the over 15% of my pay that I put in. And the pension plan's future liability is only 56% funded.

have never heard of any agency paying more in pension funding than in salary, maybe your employer is lying to you? Here's a database where you can look it up.

https://www.calpers.ca.gov/page/empl...-contributions

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by markg91359

So you despise the people who pay your salary and benefits? I'm assuming you are a former state/county/city employee. That comment is very revealing and I hope not typical of public employees in general.

The reason pensions are under attack is that they are fiscally unsustainable. Jerry Brown is anything, but a conservative. Yet, even he can see the truth here.

It would make far more sense for public employees to see the reality and agree to some changes which will keep a future system solvent.

The system ought to work for more people than a few employees who happened to get onboard at the right time.

Can't disagree with any of that. I don't think most public employees are as strident as Wizard, but there is a disconnect about how much these benefits really cost. People complain about the percentage that comes out of their pocket for these benefits as if they're paying the full amount. They have some vague notion that the employer kicks in for it too, but most have no clue how much. If it's not coming directly out of their own pockets, it simply doesn't register in their brains.

The bolded is especially true. The people who retired from 2001 to around 2011 where I work paid relatively little in for absolutely awesome pension benefits. Although pension costs had been going up ever since they improved the benefits around 2001, they started skyrocketing after 2008 and despite pension reform since then, the costs have continued to go up. Even in the best case scenario, it's probably going to take another decade before pension funding is on solid ground in most jurisdictions.

So what effectively happened is the Baby Boom generation got awesome benefits and dumped on the younger people coming up behind them. The labor unions sold out the young for benefit the old and then pointed fingers at Wall Street, bad management, etc, but never at themselves, of course. If they had just left already generous pension benefits alone around 2000, there would've been much less need for reform...but noooooooooooooo. Since most people are short sighted and suck at money, they don't ask questions. I was a little suspicious at the time, but I went along with the program just like everyone else.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

have never heard of any agency paying more in pension funding than in salary, maybe your employer is lying to you? Here's a database where you can look it up.

https://www.calpers.ca.gov/page/empl...-contributions

Oh brother. I had a long winded discussion with someone about this about 6 or 7 months back. We DM'd each other back and forth endlessly about it. I think I finally proved to him that they weren't making it up.

It shows right on my paycheck stub how much my employer contributes, for heaven's sake!

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

I am not a state employee, and, further, am a fiscal conservative. I want the state to conserve resources where possible. However, I strenuously oppose these cuts to vested benefits and think them shameful once rights have vested. This is akin to what banana republics do.

The 'Banana Republic' moniker was already attained when the benefits were increased beyond what was financially sustainable back in 2000-01. Once you drastically over-promise, there's no way to be fair. Tax increases alone would not be enough to cover the cost. Where I live they reformed the pensions and they still had sales and business tax increases after the reforms went through. They knew they wouldn't get their tax increases until the pensions were reformed first.

In 2008, I pretty much knew how this was going to play out. Pension reform, followed by tax increases. I don't enjoy being right, but I was.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical

LoL no. Most of the court's budget is from fines and fees imposed by the court. Not from your tax dollars.

This is why we think the general public is scum. They actually think their taxes fund my job. Hahahahahaha

The general public is so clueless they do not even know what they are paying for. They just assume they pay for everything. This is why we do not respect rhe public. They are not worthy of reapect. They only deserve to be looked down upon.

^^This post is an embarrassment to public sector workers. No wonder the general public resents us. I'm surprised they don't resent us more than they do.

And if you're so big on respect, maybe you should spell it correctly before posting.