White middle class in Los Angeles and Orange County

[Kings Gambit]

Originally Posted by surferdude7

White middle class in Los Angeles...........

I keep reading about them leaving.

Please provide us with your sources of where you "keep reading about them leaving". What are these sources? LMAO. No one is leaving.

I see you started threads recently in the LA, Phoenix, Dallas and general US forums, where are you now?

Los Angeles middle class areas are all very very diverse. Its one of the many many great things about LA.

We all hope that you are an active participant in this here thread that you started and come back to answer any questions we pose. Thanks.

[Kings Gambit]

Originally Posted by M3Guy

Yea, I see where this is going.......

Yep. Same here.

[ohio_peasant]

Having spent time in and around parts of the San Gabriel Valley, north/east LA and its suburbs and satellite cities... I have found the demographic question posed in the OP to be... interesting.

The question of "who's middle class" is of course provocative and beguiling. For discussion's sake, I'd put most people living in South Pasadena as "middle class", though by income and net-worth they're almost certainly well above the above-average in Lake Woebegone. San Marino, right next door to South Pasadena, I'd... not regard as middle class. Cross the 110 to the west, and enter the "Garvanza" neighborhood of LA-proper, and I'd dub these folks, with no disrespect intended, as below middle class.

Famously, the coast-hugging strip starting just west of San Pedro, up through LAX and north into Malibu and beyond, is very white and very affluent. Presumably the OP is already assuming this. Well, what remains, in light of that, and my comments about the SGV and east-LA? Santa Clarita, for example. I'm shocked whenever I visit, not only by how "white" it is, by how eerily it resembles a place like Columbus Ohio, or maybe Denver, or Northern Virginia. The further north or west that one goes in the San Fernando Valley, the "whiter" it looks... cross over into Ventura County, and the theme continues. Likewise in the opposite direction hugging the coast, east of San Pedro, into Long Beach, and especially Lakewood. Lakewood feels like stereotypical California of 50 years ago, before the vast demographic changes, that some celebrate and others lament.

[Veritas Vincit]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Having spent time in and around parts of the San Gabriel Valley, north/east LA and its suburbs and satellite cities... I have found the demographic question posed in the OP to be... interesting.

The question of "who's middle class" is of course provocative and beguiling. For discussion's sake, I'd put most people living in South Pasadena as "middle class", though by income and net-worth they're almost certainly well above the above-average in Lake Woebegone. San Marino, right next door to South Pasadena, I'd... not regard as middle class. Cross the 110 to the west, and enter the "Garvanza" neighborhood of LA-proper, and I'd dub these folks, with no disrespect intended, as below middle class.

Famously, the coast-hugging strip starting just west of San Pedro, up through LAX and north into Malibu and beyond, is very white and very affluent. Presumably the OP is already assuming this. Well, what remains, in light of that, and my comments about the SGV and east-LA? Santa Clarita, for example. I'm shocked whenever I visit, not only by how "white" it is, by how eerily it resembles a place like Columbus Ohio, or maybe Denver, or Northern Virginia. The further north or west that one goes in the San Fernando Valley, the "whiter" it looks... cross over into Ventura County, and the theme continues. Likewise in the opposite direction hugging the coast, east of San Pedro, into Long Beach, and especially Lakewood. Lakewood feels like stereotypical California of 50 years ago, before the vast demographic changes, that some celebrate and others lament.

I think a lot of those areas are a lot less 'white' in a strict sense than they appear. What's been happening for three, four decades in L.A. is that the white Californian middle class and the very integrated Mexican-American middle class (typically second or more generation) slowly merge into each other.

The fact that the flow of new white transplants from out East has slowed to a trickle and most of those are not flocking to the traditional middle class suburbs has made that even more felt. For areas that are still mostly "Anglo" white you need to head into the seriously wealthy pockets where wealthy transplants play a big part.

The wealthy parts of Orange County I feel like have still more of the old stereotypical white upper middle class. At least it always seems like when I go there, the density of tanned, blonde blue eyed folks increases like 200% from L.A. county.

[achtung baby]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Having spent time in and around parts of the San Gabriel Valley, north/east LA and its suburbs and satellite cities... I have found the demographic question posed in the OP to be... interesting.

The question of "who's middle class" is of course provocative and beguiling. For discussion's sake, I'd put most people living in South Pasadena as "middle class", though by income and net-worth they're almost certainly well above the above-average in Lake Woebegone. San Marino, right next door to South Pasadena, I'd... not regard as middle class.

.

Formerly 10 yrs South Pasadena resident here. Allow me to chime in a bit.

South Pasadena CA used to be fairly blue collar (per my next door neighbor who was an architect who built his own house.) in the past as shown in many housing stock (one story bungalow, ranch and cottage. Occasionally some Victorian, Cape Cod and Craftsman. Our house was built in 1948 and the craftsmanship, layout, design and materials used were top notch, so apparently not middle class housing even back then. The city doesn’t allow new built and high risers, no McMansions allowed.).-by the time we bought in 2010 it was $686 per square foot so definitely upper middle class at least. On our street (hillside behind the South Pasadena Senior High) the neighbors were lawyers, surgeons, architects, executives and business owners.

Currently the median housing price in South Pasadena is $1.4 mil, we sold our house for $988/square foot.

One big difference between San Marino and South Pasadena is the housing stock. San Marino doesn’t have apartments/townhouses and with very few smaller, one story houses. High density housing (apartments and townhomes) will bring down the income level.

South Pasadena doesn’t allow big box stores, no Target/Costco/Walmart but with various nice supermarkets. San Marino only has one supermarket (Ralph) and it’s actually on the border of Alhambra/San Marino/South Pasadena.

You probably gather the impression of South Pasadena being “middle class” by seeing the houses by the main streets around Fair Oaks/Mission/El Centro/Monterey. I suggest you drive around Oak, and go up to any hillside streets such as Via del Rey. On the hills (isn’t it the rule in the entire L.A area?!) is where you’d see much bigger, more stately housing in South Pasadena in the same manner San Marino houses appear. The new Apple TV mini series Palm Royale, where Carole Burnett’s palatial mansion (in the show is the annual Beach Ball of Palm Beach high society crème de la crème event.) is filmed in this gilded age mansion in South Pasadena called the Italy House. And if you drive along Orange Grove towards Pasadena as well as the neighborhood at the border of Pasadena.-all were in movies for their stately glamour and aesthetics.

Naturally, houses like these aren’t visible on the street. Like houses in Palm Beach, Beverly Hills and Bel Air, beautiful houses are usually tucked in from the main streets.

Interestingly the public school district in South Pasadena fares better than that of San Marino, ranked the 2nd in California school districts (the best ranking: La Canada.) Coincidentally La Canada is ranked the best place to raise a family in CA and South Pasadena ($127k) is second best per Niche. La Canada actually has higher household income ($210k) than San Marino ($170k) None of them is middle class. Middle class in SGV is Temple City, Hacienda Heights, Alhambra, Whittier and even some parts of Pasadena (Eastside and the side near Altadena.)

Many parts of SFV are middle class. I know a family moved to Sylmar in the valley from Pasadena to save $, husband works in JPL lab but still had to move to the Valley. Chatsworth, Canoga Park and Porter Ranch all seem to be more middle class whereas Sunland, Reseda are borderline working class.

But of course with the current real estate market, nobody middle class buys in LA with today’s price. Whoever bought decades ago could be the only middle class left in the truest sense as their property tax is low(er) and for as long as they keep the house their housing expenses will never be too high.

[ccm123]

La Crescenta-Montrose (Census designated place west of La Canada), Glendora, La Verne or San Dimas may meet your needs. These were middle class years ago, but with the housing prices at the levels they are currently at, probably only the upper-middle class can afford homes in these areas now.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by achtung baby

Interestingly the public school district in South Pasadena fares better than that of San Marino, ranked the 2nd in California school districts (the best ranking: La Canada.)

San Marino Unified ranks at the top of the state, and has for decades. La Canada Unified is just under it, and South Pasadena USD under that. The draw for these communities is their public schools.

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/c...chool-district

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...gh-school-3334

https://www.niche.com/k12/d/san-mari...t-ca/rankings/

Originally Posted by achtung baby

But of course with the current real estate market, nobody middle class buys in LA with today’s price. Whoever bought decades ago could be the only middle class left in the truest sense as their property tax is low(er) and for as long as they keep the house their housing expenses will never be too high.

After the most recent housing bubble burst in 2008, residential real estate prices declined until they were at a low in 2012. Many middle class residents bought then. One would have to define what middle class income is now, though.

[achtung baby]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

San Marino Unified ranks at the top of the state, and has for decades. La Canada Unified is just under it, and South Pasadena USD under that. The draw for these communities is their public schools.

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/c...chool-district

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...gh-school-3334

https://www.niche.com/k12/d/san-mari...t-ca/rankings/



After the most recent housing bubble burst in 2008, residential real estate prices declined until they were at a low in 2012. Many middle class residents bought then. One would have to define what middle class income is now, though.

You are correct in the school district ranking. I must have been in a coma when I wrote the post yesterday.-it was the “best suburbs to raise a family” ranking on niche with La Canada no 1 and South Pasadena No2.

Re. Middle class. We bought our house in 2010 with cash so again I have always been in a bubble. The definition of middle class is subjective though. The recent article (apology I don’t have the link in front of me) I came across stating $150k annually is now considered “lower middle class” in CA so I again have no clue.

Lastly I agree with you on “the draw for these communities is the public schools”, as in 95% of the definition of what’s considered “a great suburb” “best place to raise a family”. It’s usually the synonym of “safe” “high property tax aka high income”.