[Retroit]

Originally Posted by Tekkie

This is certainly a criticism specific to Detroit. When you hear about or see people walking around in other cities, it is not automatically assumed that they are looking for/causing trouble. In fact, some (vibrant) cities pride themselves on how walkable their cities are. You guys are probably tired of hearing it by now, but this was particularly a strength in Denver. In fact, their downtown had an outdoor pedestrian mall that drew several thousands of people on any given night with its retail shops, bars, cafes, and restaurants. Heck, there were even a ton of people strolling in the evening in the residential neighborhoods and you wouldn't have thought twice about it.

It depends on the area. In a downtown area, it's common to see and not considered a problem. But in the residential neighborhoods, it is very suspicious. People strolling is fine, but loitering is different. I should have differentiated this in my previous reply.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by PlymouthMI

Looking over this thread, I think some of the Detroit advocate posters here either don't live in Metro Detroit, or haven't in a very long time, as their uber positive image of the metro area is borderline delusional.

Jobs? What jobs? I know tons of people in the area who are unemployed or soon will be and, despite numerous submissions, can not find a new one. There's simply way more demand than supply in this regard.

People are leaving by the DROVES. I mean, I feel like I'm seeing someone on my street move on a weekly basis at this rate.

Crime IS spreading to the suburbs. My area, which some would consider affluent and probably was at one time, has been the victim numerous home invasions as well as auto thefts within September alone! Something that if you told me 10 years ago, I would have called your crazy.

And, as was mentioned on here, there's very little fun to be had here anymore, as most people seem to always stay in and whether it be Downtown Detroit on a Saturday or Ferndale/Royal Oak on a Friday, these places are pretty much ghost towns now.

To the OP, leave LA to come to Detroit? You don't hear that to often. All I can say is feel free to move down here if you wish, but do so at your own risk as I can almost promise you that you will end up wanting to leave rather quickly.

You are out of your brain.

Since the last census Oakland and Macomb counties have actually gained a little population, while Wayne lost a modest amount.

From the same article:

“While the outer-ring suburbs, dominated by townships close to major highways, clearly led the charge once again, population gains were seen in all first- and second-tier suburbs, led by Southfield, Royal Oak, Warren, Birmingham, Madison Heights, Pontiac, St. Clair Shores, Rochester Hills, Berkley and Ferndale,” he said."

Royal Oak dead? I went back there about a year ago and it is way more yuppified than it was 10 years ago.

With the stadiums alone downtown Detroit is way better than it was 10 years ago.

You're crazy dude.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by Ewan

Which neighborhoods, specifically? Not calling you out here or trying to start an argument: I'm genuinely curious. My wife and I spent around nine hours over the course of two days driving around Detroit and with the exception of downtown and a couple of areas to the northeast (that we don't know the name of - I did mark them on our map, though) there was virtually nobody around, at least by Dallas standards. I know, of course, that nine hours isn't even close to enough time to gauge a city and that's why I'm asking.

If nobody is around, why is there so much traffic on I-696 and I-75 at 5:00pm?

[EastBoundandDownChick]

This is a really tricky question because the metro area has been through so much in the past decade. In 2008 I remember things being bad. REALLY bad. Unemployment rates officially at 17-18%, more like above 20% in reality. It was especially terrible for new grads, which I was at the time. I had two choices. I could either work low-paying jobs I was highly overqualified for and live an unstable life of poverty... or leave. I left.

After the Big 3 got back on their feet and there was access to credit again things started improving. But I think you'd have to be living in a fool's paradise to really believe things are stable now. I didn't trust it then and I don't trust someone's rosy good news now. It is a backwards, dysfunctional place of boom-and-bust cycles more extreme than the rest of the nation. Like another poster said, if it was such a healthy economy why are people picking up nice 3 bedroom ranches in first and second tier suburbs for under 100K? That's unheard of in more vibrant parts of the country.

Where I live now, in NYC, you can hardly buy a crackhouse for 300K. 100K doesn't even register on the radar screen. And that same 3 bedroom ranch in the metro NYC area would probably run about 400-500K easily. Just because you see a lot of cars on 75 doesn't mean those people are necessarily going to WELL paying or STABLE jobs. The kind of beaters you see on the roads are just laughable. Especially for the Motor Capital. Most of the new job growth has been minimum wage positions, or very close to it.

[PlymouthMI]

Originally Posted by EastBoundandDownChick

This is a really tricky question because the metro area has been through so much in the past decade. In 2008 I remember things being bad. REALLY bad. Unemployment rates officially at 17-18%, more like above 20% in reality. It was especially terrible for new grads, which I was at the time. I had two choices. I could either work low-paying jobs I was highly overqualified for and live an unstable life of poverty... or leave. I left.

After the Big 3 got back on their feet and there was access to credit again things started improving. But I think you'd have to be living in a fool's paradise to really believe things are stable now. I didn't trust it then and I don't trust someone's rosy good news now. It is a backwards, dysfunctional place of boom-and-bust cycles more extreme than the rest of the nation. Like another poster said, if it was such a healthy economy why are people picking up nice 3 bedroom ranches in first and second tier suburbs for under 100K? That's unheard of in more vibrant parts of the country.

Where I live now, in NYC, you can hardly buy a crackhouse for 300K. 100K doesn't even register on the radar screen. And that same 3 bedroom ranch in the metro NYC area would probably run about 400-500K easily. Just because you see a lot of cars on 75 doesn't mean those people are necessarily going to WELL paying or STABLE jobs. The kind of beaters you see on the roads are just laughable. Especially for the Motor Capital.

Exactly. Finally, someone speaking the truth, albeit it very bleak. They're practically giving away real estate here, even in what is considered to be "wealthy" areas. Amazes to see 3 and 4 bedroom houses in Bloomfield hills going for around 100k. It's simply because no one wants to move here!

With things as bad as they are now and so many people out of work and leaving, god help us if one of the big three go down again, which is just a matter of time. We'd probably be looking at a 25-30% unemployment rate and a dead economy.

OP mentioned Gary, Indiana. I think thats exactly what the Metro Detroit area is headed towards and probably almost there already.

[jonnynonos]

Yeah comparing Manhattan to suburban Detroit, that really makes a lot of sense.

Manhattan is what, the most expensive realty in the entire country, maybe the world?

I have news for you naive doofuses: Detroit proper has been going downhill since at least the early 60s and the auto industry shedding jobs since circa the same.

You are telling campfire stories to scare yourselves.

The region as a whole is stable. Detroit is Detroit.

Yeah it's slowly atrophying...just as it has been for decades.

Anyone who thinks it's going to look radically different 20 years from now than it does now has rocks in their heads.

[jonnynonos]

"20 precedent unemployment."

Yes because unemployment in the city in actuality is probably about 50 percent. Officially it's gone down from about 30 to about 20 since the height of the recession. Actually closer now, on paper, to 17.

[PlymouthMI]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

Yeah comparing Manhattan to suburban Detroit, that really makes a lot of sense.

Manhattan is what, the most expensive realty in the entire country, maybe the world?

I have news for you naive doofuses: Detroit proper has been going downhill since at least the early 60s and the auto industry shedding jobs since circa the same.

You are telling campfire stories to scare yourselves.

The region as a whole is stable. Detroit is Detroit.

Yeah it's slowly atrophying...just as it has been for decades.

Anyone who thinks it's going to look radically different 20 years from now than it does now has rocks in their heads.

Actually I do think it will look radically different in 20 years. I think the whole Metro area (or any area within 50 miles of Detroit proper) will pretty much reach the same level of despair as Detroit (no economy, mass population exodus, decaying infra, rampant crime). The only city at that point which will have any form of economy will be Grand Rapids.

You also mentioned you visited Royal Oak "once last year". Try going again. I dare you to find any establishment that is crowded or full.

[TwinbrookNine]

Originally Posted by MarvinStrong313

What do you mean outside of the city? There are nearly 100,000 employees in downtown Detroit. Most of the traffic goes towards downtown Detroit in the morning and away from it in the evening. Plus at the time of events (sports games, fireworks, ect) downtown Detroit is by far the busiest place in Metro Detroit. And Detroit is not dead. I see more people outside walking around or hanging out in the average Detroit neighborhood than any cookie cutter subdivision.

A few office buildings in a half vacant ten square block area, sports teams, and medical facilities do not an economy make. The only people you see walking aroung "Detroit Meadows" (as it is now known as) are dope dealers prostitutes and people heading out to the liquor store or to the ADC check cashing place.

[jonnynonos]

That is an opinion utterly unsupported by facts.

I've visited Royal Oak a few times over the last several years and the downtown is much nicer than it was 10 years ago, when it was still a center of "alternative" culture.

The city has lost a whopping 5 percent of its population since 2000, which, while not ideal, is hardly the difference between thriving and ghost town.

Where do you live in Plymouth?