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I have no idea how the Navy does things as far as rank. Somehow, they incorporate their job into their rank, which other services don’t do. I don’t see this as necessary at all. Maybe within the Navy it makes sense?
Also, when I see them in uniform, I had no idea who is who, officer or enlisted. When I was in uniform, I’d just walk by without saluting, and if I was wrong, they’d tell me about it. I just didn’t care.
In all the other services, it’s very easy to tell enlisted from officer. So I always figured if the Navy didn’t want confusion, they’d fix it. But since they didn’t fix it, they got what they got. At least from me.
Sorry if that offends, but I’m being honest. I think the problem for me is that there was very little crossover between the Navy and Air Force during my career. I deployed to Army and Marine bases, and worked jointly with those services quite a bit, especially Army. But Navy? Not so much.
With all that said, I have the utmost respect for the Navy, my older brother is retired Navy, he did his 20 and got out.
Well, a few things.
Back when I was in, my knowledge of who was what and not of my service was an academic, dossier knowledge. So the one time I was at the Pentagon and needed directions, I identified an airman and "Staff Sergeant, do you know......,"
Service wise, I worked with, from time to time, my own service (the Navy), Marines, Air Force, and Coast Guard. I don't recall any Army, however......but it was always possible. I knew how to identify Marines properly, of course.
As far as ratings, it helps to know where someone comes from. I worked with MMs, enlisted Machine Mates of main engineering who didn't know their way around the ship forward of the mess decks. Why? All their life on the ship was involved in main engineering, their berthing aft, and the mess decks.
Provost Marshal wise, I worked with all the ratings. I even had an RP, Religious Programmer, as a police officer. Essentially, from my experience, that's the way the Navy is; if you need the manpower, the people will be assigned to you.....and then, in some cases, it is up to you to get them trained as needed.
In some other affairs, though, everyone is trained in it. That's what the USS Forrestal fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire
taught us. Have EVERYONE trained to fight fires for that way, if a blast takes out a fire fighting team, you have more to call on. Getting a little off the subject, what came out after HMS Sheffield https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sheffield_(D80)
was training how to fight the fire, save the ship when the ship has been cut in two, communication wise. Where you have to assemble to do the job with what you have, not what you planned for.
Finally, in my experience, a few of the odd things. First of all, I say Provost Marshal for that is what most people understand as the officer in charge of military police but as Security Officer, the Navy term, I was the department head of Navy Police. Way back then, my police officers, enlisted from various ratings, were in a modified Department of the Navy (civilian) police uniform, like below on the far left: https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com...-_-class-A.png
My police officers wore chevrons and I often addressed them as "Sergeants" when around the public....even though they were actually sailors and petty officers.
It was a decision of my Captain that with all the flag officers in a pentagon region command where we didn't want a situation where a, say, General about to get a ticket to lord over the enlisted police officer. So we put them in uniforms that the public would not see as enlisted.
Sometimes, it wasn't even Flag officers but the wives of officers. I had a situation or two where an officer's wife, upset that she had to come to the dispatcher's desk to get a day pass, would slap down her credentials infront of the dispatcher.....so I stayed late some nights so I was in the office. When it happened, "Ma'am, driving on to the Naval Station is a privilege, not a right. You will respect the sailors doing their job or that privilege will be removed.". It wasn't just my audacity doing that but that of my Captain for he took a very dim view to those who abused his sailors.
Finally, one needs to know their chain of command. I certainly did and I certainly pi**ed off a lot of officers above me (but this happens when you know you don't have a career). It is something, though, of obeying your orders while still being respectful. I had a General of some service who did not like that I was going to search his car and there was nothing he could say that would dissuade me. He took his only legal recourse, left the base, and as he did so, told me that he didn't have time for the nonsense. I came to attention, clicked my heels, saluted, and said, "As you wish, Sir.".
When I was assigned to a joint unit at Pearl Harbor, I didn't find it particularly difficult to learn the Navy rank structure to figure out pay grade--I just ignored the ratings I didn't work with at all.
Day by day, the only difficulty was recognizing petty officers from commissioned officers in the sun when they were wearing only the garrison/flight/whatever-the-Navy-calls-flat caps. All I got was gleaming points of light on the caps and collars until I got right up to should-have-saluted-one-step-earlier range. If I was lucky, I'd get glints on both sides of the officers' caps.
I have no idea how the Navy does things as far as rank. Somehow, they incorporate their job into their rank, which other services don’t do. I don’t see this as necessary at all. Maybe within the Navy it makes sense?
Also, when I see them in uniform, I had no idea who is who, officer or enlisted. When I was in uniform, I’d just walk by without saluting, and if I was wrong, they’d tell me about it. I just didn’t care.
In all the other services, it’s very easy to tell enlisted from officer. So I always figured if the Navy didn’t want confusion, they’d fix it. But since they didn’t fix it, they got what they got. At least from me.
Sorry if that offends, but I’m being honest. I think the problem for me is that there was very little crossover between the Navy and Air Force during my career. I deployed to Army and Marine bases, and worked jointly with those services quite a bit, especially Army. But Navy? Not so much.
With all that said, I have the utmost respect for the Navy, my older brother is retired Navy, he did his 20 and got out.
The job titles, like MM or BM for example, will usually include their rank. I was an MM2 when I left the Navy. That meant I was a machinist mate petty officer second class or an E-5. Once a person has earned a designated rating then their advancement is dictated by their knowledge of that rating through testing for advancement as well as other factors including evaluation and time in rank.
There are knowledge and skills required of all enlisted shipboard sailors but the jobs on ships are too numerous and specialized for most to learn all of them. Many of these jobs require their own school or at least put in the time to study and work with to even qualify to test to earn the rating.
It's ok to be confused, and I am not suprised considering that the US armed forces rank structure is very complicated compared to the more simple system used in British and Commonwealth armed forces.
British and Commonwealth armies for example usually only have 2 ranks of Sergeant; Sergeant and Staff/Color Sergeant. Additionally Warrant Officer 2 and Warrant Officer 1 are classed as senior NCOs under the British system. The US Army in comparison has 8 sergeant ranks.
The Regimental sergeant major (RSM) is the highest grade sergeant, and is an appointment that may be held by warrant officers class 1 (WO1) in the British Army, the British Royal Marines and in the armies of many Commonwealth and former Commonwealth nations, including Australia, Kenya and New Zealand. Below W01 (RSM) is WO2 and then usually staff sergeants or colour sergeants (guards regiments and royal marines).
The RSM is in charge of regimental discipline and has a number of other sergeants and corporals under his command in relation to Provosts, which are often known as Regimental Police (RP) or Regimental Discipline (RD). They should not be confused with military police who hold warrant cards and have a different role beyond discipline.
More serious offences are referred to the Military Police and dealt with by Senior Officers or Courts Marshall.
The Navy works in a similar way in terms of WO1 and WO2 and the ranks of Masters at Arms and Chief Petty Officer who is also a Warrant Officer and rather than regimental police, they have Shore Patrol at their disposal.
If you are up before the RSM or Chief Petty Officer or WO1 or WO2, then you are in trouble, beyond them and you are in a world of very serious trouble.
The job titles, like MM or BM for example, will usually include their rank. I was an MM2 when I left the Navy. That meant I was a machinist mate petty officer second class or an E-5. Once a person has earned a designated rating then their advancement is dictated by their knowledge of that rating through testing for advancement as well as other factors including evaluation and time in rank.
There are knowledge and skills required of all enlisted shipboard sailors but the jobs on ships are too numerous and specialized for most to learn all of them. Many of these jobs require their own school or at least put in the time to study and work with to even qualify to test to earn the rating.
Something like this from my side as an officer. Recognize, respect what they are for they have worked very hard for it.
After a lot more searching I have pretty much found my answers. One question remains though. It states he was married in 1946, he didn't marry my mom till 51. His family and I are a little shocked to say the least. They always assumed it meant my mom. Any way to get a record that would have info on the wife at the time?
I served 20 years in the US Navy, retiring as an ET1/SS
[Electronics Tech First Class / Submarine Service]
It is not unusual for an engaged couple to get a marriage license at a city clerk office, to file in the personnel records, to get the slight bump in pay. And then to schedule the church service for a later date. The first marriage is the legal one which would be kept a secret from the family.
The later [public church ceremony] would be the marriage that the family knows about, and would have lots of photos taken.
I have seen this practice done most commonly when a ship changes homeport.
The Navy expects all sailors to be onboard sailing the vessel to the new homeport, and to leave any girlfriend behind. But if there is a recorded marriage then the Navy will reimburse the costs of moving the wife & family to the new homeport, and thereafter the sailor's take-home pay will have an added pay to cover housing expenses for the family. So whenever a change-of-homeport is announced there will suddenly be a bunch of city hall weddings.
Your confusion is natural, after all, there is the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and then the Navy Way. Sometimes I think the old Canoe Club does some things just to be contrary. Apparently they are not fans of the "KISS" principle.
Their nuclear program is good though, I'm still making a good living mostly based on what I learned at Uncle Rickover's Trade School (civilian division in Idaho Falls, back in the '80s...)
To clarify, I went through Nuke School as a civilian, so I was never enlisted or commissioned in the Navy. But I did hang around with a crew that was, so I learned how things work in the Navy, at least while they are on shore.
I was ENd 2 USNR. If I had been USN then it would have been EN 2. "EN" stood for engineman,the "d" stood for diesel.
Enginemen were internal combustion engine specialists. Steam plants were run by Machinists Mates.
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