Milwaukee - Economist Article (Racine, York: apartment, crime rate, how much)

[zoomkay]

I found this article on another forum and wanted to share here.



https://amp.economist.com/united-sta...ishing-midwest

[timberline742]

Good piece. Thanks for posting. I recommend both Milwaukee and Pittsburgh often for very affordable cities that are up and coming and have some decent culture.

[zoomkay]

Pittsburgh is on my bucket list. I am definitely curious about that city.

Originally Posted by timberline742

Good piece. Thanks for posting. I recommend both Milwaukee and Pittsburgh often for very affordable cities that are up and coming and have some decent culture.

[timberline742]

It has a great arts/culture scene for its size, and until recently, super affordable.

[augiedogie]

Property taxes are too high to consider Milw an affordable city. The crime rate is terrible and the schools are bad. One can have a much better life in its suburbs, if you have to live in that Metro area.

[InnovativeAmerican]

Originally Posted by augiedogie

Property taxes are too high to consider Milw an affordable city. The crime rate is terrible and the schools are bad. One can have a much better life in its suburbs, if you have to live in that Metro area.

Extremely wrong. The quality of life in Milwaukee is superb in many neighborhoods, and MPS does have some wonderful schools, including King International, Milwaukee German Immersion, Milwaukee French Immersion, etc.

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by InnovativeAmerican

Extremely wrong. The quality of life in Milwaukee is superb in many neighborhoods, and MPS does have some wonderful schools, including King International, Milwaukee German Immersion, Milwaukee French Immersion, etc.

I generally agree that Milwaukee is affordable, even though the property taxes are relatively high.

Similar houses in some other parts of the country, such as a lot of cities in the Sunbelt, tend to be cheaper and have lower property taxes. But the flip side is that public services tend to be worse, and a lot of the less expensive places are culturally bland and boring.

Similar houses in still other areas, such as high-cost coastal cities, tend to be far more expensive. If my house/neighborhood were in the SF Bay Area or NYC area, I wouldn't be able to afford it, even with my income adjusted for averages in those areas. On the flip side, property taxes in these areas are often kind of low (in the west, for example), but not always (like Connecticut). Public services in these places tend to be very good.

For me, the issue is more about quality of life. I could move to a cheaper area, but I would probably take a pay cut, and I wouldn't have access to a lot of the stuff that I like to do.

I've lived in the south, and my parents lived in the south for a while, but the savings in cost is not worth the boredom and (for me) retrograde culture.

I've also lived in major metros on the coasts, and although I like the culture there, it's just too expensive. I don't want to live in a tiny apartment, or live mortgaged to the hilt, just to be around culture that I'll have no money left for anyhow.

For me, Milwaukee has been a happy medium--not totally cheap, but sufficiently affordable. Lots of stuff to do in the realms of nature and culture. Enough job opportunities in case I need them. A good mix of progressives, moderates, and conservatives around me to keep it real.

I'm quite happy paying more money in taxes in Wisconsin for what I consider to be a higher quality of life.

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by augiedogie

Property taxes are too high to consider Milw an affordable city.

It depends on what your expectations/interests are and what kind of income you have.

There are a lot of people who spend their time on home projects, fishing, and chain restaurants. You can do that almost anywhere, so you may as well live in a cheaper place.

But there are a lot of people who like theater, ethnic foods, artsy neighborhoods, and stuff like that. You can't find that just anywhere. Milwaukee has that stuff, but without San Francisco prices and without Chicago traffic. Milwaukee's a good deal in that regard.

The crime rate is terrible and the schools are bad. One can have a much better life in its suburbs, if you have to live in that Metro area.

The crime rate is terrible in the United States, so you go to the places where crime is relatively low. Same with Milwaukee: work, live, and play in the low-crime places--if you can. Not everyone can afford it, though. Having money always helps with options.

I agree with IA that there are some good schools in Milwaukee. There are some terrible ones, too.

OTOH, my parents used to live in a quiet, seaside community in Florida. The schools were all pretty safe, but low education funding in Florida meant that the schools were academically terrible.

If I had kids, I would rather send them to one of Milwaukee's good schools than to nearly any school in Florida. Florida is nice and sunny and all, but culturally and academically vapid, for the most part.

[guidoLaMoto]

Originally Posted by Empidonax

But there are a lot of people who like theater, ethnic foods, artsy neighborhoods, and stuff like that. You can't find that just anywhere.

.

New Yorkers consider Chicago a hick town. What does that make Milwaukee? How many people go to the Thee-a-tuh? How long can you look at a few tin cans stuck on wire hangers and called "Art?" Once one gets past his pretentious years- you know- those first few years after you've gotten out of the poverty of student days and start bringing home a salary which seems so large- you look for other things in life. What do you do for the other 23 hrs of the day after you've spent 1 hr at a Bosnian restaurant for a meal you could have made at home? Or is that all the stimulation one can handle at a time?


Those sorts of things are paprika, not meat & potatoes or even gravy.


ps/ Schools are no better anywhere than the kids who go there. A teacher can tell you to memorize a poem, but can't memorize it for you. You don't need Edward Witten as teacher to give you a good foundation in arithmetic. Some of the most solidly educated kids ever were the ones who went to one-room school houses: older kids had to teach younger kids. Teaching is the best way to learn. You need to clarify it & organize it in your own mind to teach it.

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto

New Yorkers consider Chicago a hick town. What does that make Milwaukee? How many people go to the Thee-a-tuh? How long can you look at a few tin cans stuck on wire hangers and called "Art?" Once one gets past his pretentious years- you know- those first few years after you've gotten out of the poverty of student days and start bringing home a salary which seems so large- you look for other things in life.

Huh? I get the New Yorker-- It doesn't say much at all about Chicago because it's about... New York.

It's pretty ignorant to think that theater in Milwaukee (or anywhere with a significant scene) is merely pretentious, one-off entertainment. I would never pay to see "tin cans on a stage," but have enjoyed works by Shakespeare, Racine, Sartre, Ionesco, and many others. If you only like TV and Netflix and grade school theater, that's fine, but not enough for me.

BTW, it's precisely when you start having a bigger salary when you can afford to do more interesting things.

And judging from all of the grey hair I've seen at the symphony, theaters, and other places, quite a few elders would agree.

What do you do for the other 23 hrs of the day after you've spent 1 hr at a Bosnian restaurant for a meal you could have made at home? Or is that all the stimulation one can handle at a time?

Those sorts of things are paprika, not meat & potatoes or even gravy.

These sorts of things are the spice of life--they help turn mere existence into living.

True, we spend around 8 hours a day asleep, maybe another 8 or so at work, and often much of the rest of the day at home or doing ordinary things.

But a good arts scene, plus good libraries and bookstores, plus good markets and culinary options, plus other urban pleasures, add a premium to life--for some people, at least. Other people like live music, some like hard-to-find foreign or art films, some enjoy classes, clubs, and organizations that only larger urban areas can offer.

Even regarding those who don't have urban interests: How much time do they really spend on what they like doing? Fishing? Hunting? Snowmobiling? Cycling? Cards? Not too many working people do these things too often, but once in a while is just enough. Is it mere "paprika" to you?

One nice thing about living in an urban area is the access to urban activities as well as non-urban options. For some of us, merely having the opportunity to attend a quality play and merely having the opportunity to walk in a woods is very assuring.