10-01-2007, 08:31 PM
Location: Apple Valley, MN
16 posts, read
20,976 times
Reputation: 17
Hoosier guy… if you were an educated and critical thinker, instead of taunting and ridiculing people with your remarks about the Big Bad Government you would make the effort to engage in intellectual debate and perhaps realize that the issue with the smoking ban isn’t just that smoking is being banned…the issue is that the government is banning legal activity ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. Private property rights and the protections from government abuse is one of this country’s most precious constitutional tenets. Regardless of what you and I think about smoking and about smokers, the facts are, that smoking and being a smoker is legal. Banning smoking, a legal activity, is an invasion by the government plain and simple. It would be wise for all of us to not lockstep with the government on this one lest we find ourselves beholden.
Last edited by QuadEagle; 10-01-2007 at 08:32 PM ..
Reason: Removing paragraph attributes
10-01-2007, 08:55 PM
143 posts, read
457,279 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hoosier_guy
Sorry that some feel the big bad government is coming in to try and help everyone co-exist in a more healthy environment.
I guess you'd have to define
co-exist before I knew if I could agree with you. That seems to imply that smokers still have a choice of going out somewhere and being able to smoke.
To me, it kind of looks like co-existing means that smokers can be right there along with non-smokers, so long as they don't smoke.
10-01-2007, 09:11 PM
20 posts, read
67,579 times
Reputation: 14
In AZ they began a smoking ban this past summer. I don't think it slowed the places down to much being the weather allows for open decks. Many of the places have decks with misters, tables, even a shot bar on the deck. Then again it's AZ, nothin compared to the freezing nights/days in the north. Bad move for those areas, I say if they nonsmokers (like myself) don't like it then stay the F@#* home and be bored. Not like you need to live in the bar anyways. The bars/clubs here have the option to allow it in the facility if they really want to, I believe. The other places I think are more strict and need to follow like restaurants of which I agree.
10-02-2007, 04:55 PM
Location: Grand Rapids, MN
571 posts, read
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Reputation: 314
Ok, I was trying to avoid a philisophical debate and stick to talking about the "consequences" (both good and bad) of the smoking ban. It's probably pretty obvious what my feelings are (not that they really matter since it is as they say, "a done deal"), but since this is STILL America, I'd like to throw my .02 out there for the record anyway:
As far as "rights" go, I would agree that, in MOST cases, a non-smoker's right to breathe clean air supercedes that of a smoker's to engage in an activity that, albiet legal, could potentially harm a non-smoker. As such, I believe that's why there wasn't much resistance when they banned smoking in places like airports, shopping malls, schools, office buildings, etc. years ago.
Restaurants were a little touchier because, as opposed to the above examples, they tend to cater to more specific "markets" and as a consumer, you have more choices as to whether or not you will patronize a smoking vs. non-smoking establishment. Most restaurant owners--recognizing that most of their customers were non-smokers--went smoke-free voluntarlily anyway (at least that's what I saw)...so I think that's why some people took issue with the notion of the "big bad government" coming in to dictate what would have most likely gone along with "free market" trends anyway, especially given some time.
A big argument in FAVOR of restuarant smoking bans (at least in my opinion) is the fact that children (who have no say as to where their parents drag them) are allowed in most restaurants. I always hated when parents brought their kids into the smoking section. Adults, both customers and employees, can CHOOSE where they want to eat or work. But if for no other reason than to protect the kids, I can go along with the idea of smoking bans in restaurants.
Bars though...these are places that cater to ADULTS. Isn't there a point at which we can allow ADULTS to make informed decisions as to where they choose to spend their money? We can't leave ONE small segment of the business world open for business owners to run their businesses (LEGALLY) as they wish?
I hear the non-smokers saying how great it is to go out where there's no smoking and that it hasn't hurt the places they patronize. That's great, really. It makes me wonder why the bars you go to didn't choose to ban smoking on their own anyway...but if that works for everyone involved, great! More power to you.
But for those places that you never HAVE and never WILL patronize...the little guy with the working class bar on the corner who's going to have to shut down becaue 75% of his former customers are staying home (or going to the casinos) because they can no longer engage in a LEGAL activity there...why can't we let HIM run his bar the way that's profitable for him? Why not let HIS customers have a place where they can go out and relax the way THEY want to? Is that hurting anyone who doesn't want to be hurt? Do we really need the government involved to this extent??
Well, again, it's a moot point...but I do feel better for having the chance to rant a little! For me, personally, I don't go out to bars that much anymore anyway. But it makes me angry (and a little bit scared) to think of how involved the government is in our personal lives. I don't mean to get all "slippery slope" here, but seriously, where does it end?
10-02-2007, 10:32 PM
1,016 posts, read
3,038,809 times
Reputation: 679
I'm happy to say that I no longer smoke. I still enjoy grabbing a couple of beers, though. I now understand why non-smokers hate being in really smokey bars. It really is rough on the breathing. Regular smokers don't notice it as much, because their lungs are coated with a protective tar layer.
That being said, I really think that in the case of bars it definitely should be up to the business owner. I think the State is overstepping its mandate on this one. If the excuse of the safety of employees is the one being used, then I think we should all just stop working. I work in an office, typing all day. I risk Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and God only knows how many electromagnetic fields I'm sitting in. Now, think about welders--they are in noxious fumes all day. A person can choose not to sit by a welder all day by not standing in a welding booth, and they can also choose not to sit by a smoker in a bar by not going to the bar. If you don't like loud music, don't buy tickets to the Iron Maiden show. It's very simple.
"I don't drink in "no-smoking" bars. The atmosphere is always too stuffy"--Ian Gillan
10-03-2007, 08:01 AM
Location: Brooklyn Park
13 posts, read
61,902 times
Reputation: 13
About time to ban those dang cancer sticks!!!
I thinK its fantastic! Now maybe the rest of the world can go to a bar and enjoy a smoke free day! Not come home and smell like a cigarette butt and your eyes wont be as red as an apple. The hang over from cigarette smoke is worse than the my drinks. So many innocent people get lung cancer from 2nd hand smoke! Aw the smokers will be back into the bar scene they are just in the whining stage!
10-03-2007, 08:09 PM
863 posts, read
1,342,834 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Isaysos
I LOVE the smoking ban, and I hope that one day all states pass it!
I would only love the ban if they made all smoking illegal. To allow smoking to be legal but restrict where a person can smoke is infringement on your personal civil rights and freedom of movement. It's especially bad since the only reason the government keeps smoking legal is so they can benefit monetarily. It's pathetic.
Also, I'd bet that if I tried to open a smoker's only bar or restaurant I'd be shut down. Wonder if I could argue equal rights and win? I bet I'd make good money with such a bar/restaurant.
10-04-2007, 03:16 AM
Location: NM
118 posts, read
207,142 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kiru
I would only love the ban if they made all smoking illegal. To allow smoking to be legal but restrict where a person can smoke is infringement on your personal civil rights and freedom of movement. It's especially bad since the only reason the government keeps smoking legal is so they can benefit monetarily. It's pathetic.
Also, I'd bet that if I tried to open a smoker's only bar or restaurant I'd be shut down. Wonder if I could argue equal rights and win? I bet I'd make good money with such a bar/restaurant.
Good points. Are non-smokers afraid that all bars would become smoking again if private owners made the house policy on smoking? I think not. Some bars would stay as they are, non-smoking. Others would opt to be smoking. In my little town we had the best of both worlds. 2 smoking establishments and 1 non-smoking establishment. All bars did well. Now that the smoking ban is in effect, we all lose. The non-smoking bar down sized because they are no longer unique. The smoking bars lost a good percentage of their business(smokers). Some smokers have returned and smoke outside. Many have just opted to stay at home where they are comfortable or go to bars at private clubs (V.F.W.'s, Elks, etc.) or the Indian casinos. The non-smoking population has to be shared 3 ways. We all are hurting. Funny, huh?
10-07-2007, 11:42 AM
Location: Ely mn
49 posts, read
364,983 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Auntie Bob
*Laffin* Well something tells me that stepping outside for a smoke in phx az isn't quite the same as doing it in MN....in Jan.
Here we have a 25ft rule too though. You can't smoke within 25 feet of a doorway. Given the buildings are mostly all attached downtown, it's pretty hard to get 25ft from a doorway without stepping out into the middle of the street.
I live in Ely ,mn... cant get much colder or northern then that in mn...
Talk about small towns? Been to Ely?
10-07-2007, 12:59 PM
143 posts, read
457,279 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kallista
I live in Ely ,mn... cant get much colder or northern then that in mn...
Talk about small towns? Been to Ely?
I have but, not in the winter.
I was totally impressed with Ely. What a charming little town. I was there for a little while a few years back working for the Census. The people were so helpful and friendly, it made me wanna stay around a while.
I did get a kick out of the Pamida store there too. That had to be the oldest and smallest Pamida I'd ever seen.
All in all I left with a very favorable impression of the town and I'd love to visit again some time. Not in the winter though.
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Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)