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Manchester Academy in Yazoo City where I'm from was established in 1969 and only until I think the last 20 years or so allowed African American students. Of course, their parents can pay the tuition. I don't know where the kids whose parents don't want them to with "black kids" sent their children now.
My observation (from my own state of Oklahoma) is that in the 1960s what was once across the board racism has now evolved more into a form of "classism". Most white parents today don't have a problem with sending their kids to school with black kids who come from reasonable resources and aren't into being "drugstore gangstas". The dynamics may be a little bit different in the Delta because it is majority Black and the dynamics are a bit different but I'd bet it is still pretty close to that.
Most white parents today don't have a problem with sending their kids to school with black kids who come from reasonable resources and aren't into being "drugstore gangstas". The dynamics may be a little bit different in the Delta because it is majority Black and the dynamics are a bit different but I'd bet it is still pretty close to that.
Wrong.
The issue is that most white people in the USA won't get involved in ANYTHING if they are not the majority. Has little to do with class, and everything to do with not being able to imagine a scenario where they aren't in total control.
White people in general won't attend majority black schools or colleges, won't live in majority black neighborhood even when populated by upper middle class black people, won't attend functions they feel are too black, won't join organizations that are seen as too black, and in general unless they are true foodies, won't even attend a restaurant that is too black.
Is that racism? I don't know I'm not in their heads.
The issue is that most white people in the USA won't get involved in ANYTHING if they are not the majority. Has little to do with class, and everything to do with not being able to imagine a scenario where they aren't in total control.
White people in general won't attend majority black schools or colleges, won't live in majority black neighborhood even when populated by upper middle class black people, won't attend functions they feel are too black, won't join organizations that are seen as too black, and in general unless they are true foodies, won't even attend a restaurant that is too black.
Is that racism? I don't know I'm not in their heads.
I won't argue your point other than to say that what you described is not the dynamic for your typical private school that we are discussing that starts out all white and then integrates. But your point demonstrates the fact that the Private schools are majority white and the white people would likely leave that school if they it were to become majority black.
But the fact of the matter is that in 1970 those places would refuse a Black Doctor or Lawyer's kid. Today I see that those types of kids are generally welcome at the Private school (at least where I live).
My observation (from my own state of Oklahoma) is that in the 1960s what was once across the board racism has now evolved more into a form of "classism". Most white parents today don't have a problem with sending their kids to school with black kids who come from reasonable resources and aren't into being "drugstore gangstas". The dynamics may be a little bit different in the Delta because it is majority Black and the dynamics are a bit different but I'd bet it is still pretty close to that.
This is correct. The more means people have, they generally gravitate away from the masses. Colors don't really matter in this regard.
Jackson Panther's post is just ignorance (as in 'not knowing', not as an insult), based on our little corner of the world here in the U.S., where most of the wealthy people are white. Not to mention there is a real animosity and hostility toward white people now, which is leading to violence against them in many areas. But anyway, his POV does not hold up in other areas of the world. People simply want to be around their peers, and ethnicity/language/culture/etc. usually play a part in what makes groups have things in common and not.
The issue is that most white people in the USA won't get involved in ANYTHING if they are not the majority. Has little to do with class, and everything to do with not being able to imagine a scenario where they aren't in total control.
White people in general won't attend majority black schools or colleges, won't live in majority black neighborhood even when populated by upper middle class black people, won't attend functions they feel are too black, won't join organizations that are seen as too black, and in general unless they are true foodies, won't even attend a restaurant that is too black.
Is that racism? I don't know I'm not in their heads.
I appreciate your input, my thoughts on these points are below:
White people in general won't attend majority black schools or colleges,
As far as HS/Elementary (I'm speaking from my point of view in MS) - Most majority black schools are ranked very low - therefore for those who can afford it (black and white) look for other alternatives.
won't live in majority black neighborhood even when populated by upper middle class black people
Most majority black neighborhoods around here are what some would consider higher crime areas. I'm sure there are some majority black middle class neighborhoods in the metro, but I don't know that for sure. Most people I know (of all races) consider good public schools and low crime two of the top factors when buying a house.
won't attend functions they feel are too black
Don't have an opinion on this, but I've been to high school football stadiums/basketball gyms were the attendees were majority black and never had a problem or felt out of place.
won't join organizations that are seen as too black,
Personally, I wouldn't have a problem joining a black organization, especially a benevolent or veterans organization, but I'm not a "joiner." An aside, many community organizations across the nation are drying up due to younger generations putting their time and effort in other interests (Internet, social media, streaming TV, youth sports, other kid activities, etc.)
and in general unless they are true foodies, won't even attend a restaurant that is too black.
I whole heartily disagree with this. Likely the most famous restaurant in the south, Dreamland, was started by a black man (I'm not sure about the owners of franchised locations). Bullys (prior to Greta being involved in the unfortunate incident), was frequented by white people. Many black owned restaurants in Jxn are frequented by whites and I can think of several in Flowood. If the food and service is good, it doesn't matter who owns it. People would drive hours to eat at the original Letha's in Foxworth. I've never been to E & L, but a coworker always tells me not to go, to let her pick it up.
Last edited by viverlibre; 09-24-2021 at 09:19 AM..
One point I've never seen mentioned anywhere is that in Mississippi the average white child attends a school that is roughly 25% black students, which is orders of magnitude higher than virtually all other states, where that figure is often just 1-5%, as black students in northern states tend to live mainly in a handful of large cities and thus are clustered into a handful of urban schools. In western states and huge swathes of northern states, the black population is often below 2% in most counties.
In central Mississippi the difference from the rest of the country is even more pronounced, with white students typically attending schools that are 30-60% black students. Typically private school students only account for 20%-25% of white students, based on income, with the rest attending public schools. Examples are Vicksburg, Yazoo County, Mendenhall, Morton, Brookhaven, Grenada, Starkville, Kosciusko, Winona, McComb, et al. It's also true in DeSoto County, Tupelo, Oxford, Corinth, Batesville, Pascagoula, Hattiesburg, Columbia, et al. The Delta is an exception, but white students there are only some 15% of the population anyway. But for the rest of Mississippi, the level of black/white integration simply doesn't exist anywhere else in the nation.
Probably not. Catholic schools up North started recruiting black football players decades ago and generally tuition is waived. IMG HS Academy in Florida the tuition is, wait for it, $85,000 . They play all sports but for the most part it is wealthy whites subsidizing some poorer blacks for athletics.
In NY where I am, some kids get scholarships or financial aid, regardless of background. Some may also pay most of or full tuition as well. There are some Catholic schools that have relatively affordable tuition too. Ironically, if some of the black players transfer out of the Catholic/private school, sometimes they actually come from solid to very good suburban school districts. So, I say all of this to say that we have to be careful to assume that black athletes are going to private schools completely free or that they necessarily need to go to private schools to get a good education.
One point I've never seen mentioned anywhere is that in Mississippi the average white child attends a school that is roughly 25% black students, which is orders of magnitude higher than virtually all other states, where that figure is often just 1-5%, as black students in northern states tend to live mainly in a handful of large cities and thus are clustered into a handful of urban schools. In western states and huge swathes of northern states, the black population is often below 2% in most counties.
In central Mississippi the difference from the rest of the country is even more pronounced, with white students typically attending schools that are 30-60% black students. Typically private school students only account for 20%-25% of white students, based on income, with the rest attending public schools. Examples are Vicksburg, Yazoo County, Mendenhall, Morton, Brookhaven, Grenada, Starkville, Kosciusko, Winona, McComb, et al. It's also true in DeSoto County, Tupelo, Oxford, Corinth, Batesville, Pascagoula, Hattiesburg, Columbia, et al. The Delta is an exception, but white students there are only some 15% of the population anyway. But for the rest of Mississippi, the level of black/white integration simply doesn't exist anywhere else in the nation.
Which makes sense given that MS at 38% black has the highest percentage in the country. There are historical and policy aspects that come into play in other regions, among other things.
Ironically, the high school my dad went to before leaving the state in 1965, the former Tchula Attendance Center, which became S.V. Marshall HS and recently consolidated to become Holmes County Central HS, is I believe essentially all black today.
Segregation Academies are NOT unique to Mississippi - or to the South.
I live in Ohio and we have Valley Christian School in Youngstown and Victory Christian Academy in Niles. Marylin Manson is also from my area of Ohio. He attended a Segregation Academy in Ohio. Heritage Christian. Really worked wonders on him.
There are some AA students in Ohio. many are recruited for sports.
Back in NY State there are Christian Schools and academies all over Long Island. Most public schools are good, so I don't think people choose them out of safety. Some are good until HS or Middle School. That was the case with us. The education is no better, but it's different. Obviously they don't teach evolution, and they spend way too much time on handwriting and memorizing Bible verses.
Really wealthy people in NY usually choose elite private schools,
I had to use a "Christian Academy" for a year when I was living on Long Island. The $50,000 per year tuition was out of my league but the $10,000 was manageable for two kids. The alternative was Catholic school, and we are Protestant, so I chose the Christian Academy.
Then we bought a house in a better school district. Ours was "safe" until Middle School. Then we sold our starter house and 'got outta Dodge".
We’re those schools in OH created as a result of school integration or for other reasons?
I understand your point, but the fact that also remains that sports is usually the one thing that brings people together, across racial lines.
Maybe/maybe-not
Sports may bring-together the kind of people who tolerate The Sports Culture. But they add enormously to levels of hatred, alienation, isolation, and disinvestment, in everybody else.
I know a couple of people who were among the first students, in the first year, of the Delta's premier private school - the one frequently resented by those at Greenville Christian. This is a mashup of personal accounts from various people, paraphrasing three decades' worth of stories I've heard, and inevitably mixing people's accounts:
"Forced Integration was wonderful! Public school (all-white, while I was there, but mostly violent white TRASH) was so horrible, I was planning to kill myself. I had an anchor, and was going to drown myself, before the bullies in our rural school district could torture me to death. But then (mirabile dictu!) the government stuck its nose into Mississippi's business, again, and integrated the schools. This saved my life. Thank you, President Kennedy! Thanks to you, I, and all my many cousins, got to go to private schools! My elders were oblivious to the bullying and its impending consequences. But, thank heavens, they objected to integration. Otherwise, they never would have spent the money, and I'd have died before reaching 15.
"I was snatched out of public school over Christmas Break, sent to town to live with my grandmother, and enrolled in Greenville Christian, which had been hastily expanded. The school was in the Hotel Greenville. It was interesting. The little skyscraper was still pure, unadulterated 1925 Art Deco, and we had assemblies in the Gold Ballroom and the Green Ballroom - completely unchanged from the Dollar Cotton era (except for some peeling paint and a bit of fallen plaster). Mostly, the kids at Christian were mean, neurotic Holyrollers, and the people running the place were of the 'Piper Laurie as Carrie White's Mom' variety. That said, AT LEAST THERE WAS NO VIOLENCE. Greenville Christian was way better than public schools, in that regard. As I said, IT SAVED MY LIFE.
"And, there were also a lot of newly-enrolled kids from top Delta families. I was being picked-up from school in a black Lincoln, with red velvet upholstery, and felt distinctly inferior to the Tatum children, getting into their Navy Blue Lincoln with navy leather upholstery. I knew Navy was nicer than black, which was for disreputable types (but, let's face it: our Lincoln was bought with money from gun-running, the Louisiana side of our family put Huey Long in office, and there were slot machines in one of our barns - so, of course we had the red velvet). If one sort of squinted, the whole thing was almost glamorous: a polished aluminum & greige granite Art Deco staircase... frosted Lalique sconces... ballrooms... Kids emerging from beneath a polished Art Deco marquee, toward curbside queues of those giant Late Sixties luxury cars, in front of that formerly-fabulous old building, on an elegant old oak-canopied boulevard. If one squinted... quickly... and didn't think too hard about it.
"But that was only for one semester. A new, better school was being formed. The new one was HEAVEN! The Christian School malevolence was gone. Everybody at the new private school was from a nice family - basically the kind of kids who'd made the town's public schools among the best in the nation - up there with Greenwich, Connecticut's and Marin County's. No more crazy religious types, trying to figure-out how they could trick me into doing something which would get me in trouble.
"The new school's Headmaster was dignified and cultured. The teachers were people of substance - one, the NATION's top Latin teacher. The queue of luxury cars moved to the new school. And, to the line of ordinary Lincolns, Cadillacs, and Imperials (and one Silver Shadow), were added the actual LIMOUSINES - partitions and all - of five families (two physicians, a merchant prince, and two towboat tycoons), who bought them for carpooling (three - modified for diplomatic use - were brought down Up-east). Wonderfully exotic Anouska Hempel types were being driven across from the Arkansas side of the river, for classes. The scion of the world's then-largest privately held corporation (sent to manage the family's Arkansas holdings), had extra air conditioning added to the rear of his Volvo wagon, for ferrying his tots across the river to school. We were well on the way to being better than Jackson Prep, and on a par with Saint Andrews. Everything was about LEARNING. The extraneous schmegegge which steals so much time and focus from students, was absent. And all of this wonderfulness lasted for exactly one year.
"The next year, we found out that an influx of rich Rednecks were now sending their kids to the new school. To appease THEM, and THEIR priorities, the school had stolen a total goon of a football coach away from another school, and had made him our Principal...and Coach, of course, which was the point of the ploy. First thing, first day of the new school year, he stands up there, and starts threatening us. Previously, there had been no discipline problem, or even a hint of a problem. Why would there have been a discipline problem? We'd been nice kids in a nurturing environment. Well, after those threats and insults from The Goon, we suddenly had a discipline problem.
"Priorities were reordered to reflect the NEW PECKING ORDER. Previously, there had been no pecking order. Now, it was ATHLETICS vs PEOPLE WHO NO-LONGER MATTERED. Everything was about football and cheerleading and mandatory pep rallies and homecoming and proms and all the typical, sleazy garbage you'd expect in a public school. Our elders were paying all this money, and we still had to deal with that? You know the cognitive dissonance we get, watching the scene in 'Grey Gardens', where Little Edie, supposedly raised as an ultra-elite aristocrat, is doing some stupid cheerleader dance, to typical football music? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_0IhqWd6fE That's the feeling we were having, when we learned that the odious rituals from public schools, had followed us to this new, supposedly "exclusive" school.
"I overheard a cheerleader talking about a basketball game against Greenville Christian, where the students from 'Christian' were yelling antisemitic and anti-Sicilian slurs at the kids from our school. (the new, elite, school, was ethnically diverse, in-the-extreme, while 'Greenville Christian' was not).
"---- was disqualified from running for Student Body President, on a trumped-up technicality, because a football player (whom everybody detested) was running.
"Once, The Goon booked a guy (who would go on to become a nationally-notorious racist figure) as an "Inspirational Patriotism Speaker". He was there to talk about "patriotism", though, and not about that other unmentionable thing. Patriotism was his schtick, at the time - not racism. Naturally, a sort of "color guard" of football players preceded him into the mandatory assembly. First of all, the speaker was an idiot. Second (as history would eventually bear-out), he was clearly and dangerously insane. Why was he addressing students at an elite private school? Why did "our" Principal/Coach not know any better? Even as kids, we knew something was seriously wrong, with this idiot marching into the room, preceded by football players carrying flags tied to broomsticks - particularly after he started babbling like a schizophrenic, about some dressing-down he'd gotten from a Kennedy, after he'd cornered the Kennedy in an elevator in Chevy Chase Maryland. Well.... that was the last mandatory assembly. After that, there was a detention room for conscientious objectors not interested in pep rallies. Parents were LIVID their kids had been exposed to the guest loon's ravings - not that this resulted in The Goon's termination - or censure.
"Two decades back, I ran into a seriously psychotic surgeon who'd been one of the sacred football boys. You know how doctors think they're natural fundraisers for their schools, and hit-you-up, if they know you have money? He was qvelling about who'd become the school's Principal, and who'd become "The Coach" (the two guys with the lowest academic standing in the whole school, their senior year). One was supposed to be happy about that, as if it were a good thing. This tells you everything you need to know, about the school's priorities, once athletics corrupted it.
"They used to send out a newsletter. The "Where are they Now" section was always underwhelming. Virtually nobody amounted to anything much. We had absolutely nothing even resembling career guidance. The school was so focused on football, nobody noticed that the kids weren't being told about getting into schools, picking majors - or even that different colleges offered different majors.
"Now, half-a-century later, they've got the chutzpah to be sending us these emails (Aunt Zelda in River Club Estates, just had to tell the old cheerleader across the street - who never spoke one word to me, back then, good or bad or indifferent: I just didn't exist... - my email). Zelda was Greatest Generation, when everybody got along... She could not conceive that maybe I WASN'T interested in a class reunion - and that I didn't want my number or email shared, ad infinitum... or that such information could be mined for no-telling-which databases for no-telling-what purposes. So, now, Bambi the Cheerleader has decided to MERGE our Senior Class with that of the PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL of a town which now makes Johannesburg look like Zurich, in terms of crime statistics. For this, our elders paid all that money?
"And the school is expecting us to give them money? They really think that email updates about their football program, and homecoming idiocy are going to give us warm, fuzzy feelings resulting in our writing of big, juicy checks? NYET! NON! NEIN! BECAUSE of their neglect of academics, in favor of athlethics, what they'll be getting, will be rien, niente... BUPKIS.
"I'm hearing, now, that the school's down from three sections per-grade, to one. Everybody's leaving the Delta. I have to wonder... if maybe they'd worried more about teaching the kids more about money and how to make it and keep it - and less about having a winning "team" - maybe more of us would have been able to stay in the Delta. Maybe if someone had focused on guiding us into degree programs usable in the Delta, we could have stayed there. Maybe if we'd had lecturers on trading and investment strategies, instead of exercises in "Team Spirit" and "Patriotism"...
(There! I've been listening to these stories since '82. Hope I've remembered it correctly)
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. They play all sports but for the most part it is wealthy whites subsidizing some poorer blacks for athletics.
