The Montanan's problem with outsiders moving in.. (foreclosure, to rent)
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Hi. I am soon to visit Montana for work as a nanny. I have read the thread and understand that we seem to have similar issues here in NZ in regard to the greedy purchase and inflation of property, making it hard for the ordinary person to be able to enjoy a decent home and lifestyle.
My time in what looks like an amazing part of the USA, Big timber Montana, is something I am looking forward to and hope to make some friends and enjoy the beautiful countryside.
Any tips on the weather, activities, and cautions would be welcome.. Cheers.
The "Californian" problem goes way back in the rocky mountain west. It's synonymous with people taking up their own causes and views in an area that may not, nor want to share those said views. MOST, but not all of this frustration is based on the "California" attitude.
Unfortunately, it's a true stigma, not about judgment of people individually, but of a collective attitude that IS a part of a lot of the mindset of a lot of people mostly from California. (and other larger areas)
I understand that every person is different, and a lot of Californians are really nice people. I just pick on CA folks more because the majority of the greedy real estate types come from out there... Actually I have quite a few friends from CA, and we agree about the mindset thing... There are quite a few nice Californians on this forum too.. but again most agree about the mindset in the area and want to move! I don't blame them!
What I have a hard time with is the attitude of people that have this desperate drive to move here, and live here for a few months and then express a need for "change". GO HOME!
The beauty of Montana has been there for thousands of years and it's really frustrating to live here, and hear from and see people that want (and aggressively attempt) to change the way things are done here.
We're not Al Quada.. We don't make women wear hoods, nor do we chop the hands off of thieves or cut the tongues out of the mouths of liars.. (although if you steal from or lie to the wrong person you might get an old fashioned western ass whoopin'..)
Addressing the housing issue... People from areas that have inflated home values that take advantage of the rural economy by buying property to resell for profit, or as a tax write off as a small business (We call these California ranches) really do more hurt than benefit for the state as a whole. (You'll hear politicians lie about this all the time and say it's good, but come visit some ranch/farming families and see how it effects them.)
I don't blame the honest immigrants , but we do get a lot of the ones who knew what they were doing when they "back doored" the area they moved from. Now they try and do it here. (by "back dooring" I mean the ones who bought land and homes just to "flip" the property for a profit based on the current economy.) This is how they make their money.., is it an honest trade??
NO! It's not honest to bleed other people for money, even if it's in a roundabout way. PERIOD.
If YOU WANT TO EARN A LIVING HERE GET A JOB THAT HELPS the economy, instead of one that bleeds it.
Another crazy thing is these types of people move in and as the property values and taxes go up take it in the shorts as well, because they pay the inflated prices.. if they were smart they could have SAVED that extra money and bought low and had some security. All it takes is the patience and forethought not to pay too much, along with the willingness to walk out of the broker's office because the asking price is too much.
They think that because they moved to a lower value market that the price was good.. Not if your job won't support the difference... and that is exactly what a lot of newbies are starting to find out. Unfortunately it's effecting the honest ones that simply wanted to better their lives more than the greedy ones that pay attention to the market and know how to work it to their advantage.. (Life is not a poker game folks, as fun as it sounds the house always wins in the long run. )
Some of the new folks think that they figured out how to make "easy" money by "flipping" properties in a slower market based on what they learned in the big city or town they came from, then moved to Montana with the attitude of "who's to blame me for bettering myself?" right?? "I'll just pass my loss on to the next buyer."
WRONG What they do is jack up the prices for the majority of the honest people (and themselves) that are pursuing an honest reason to move out here.... An escape from crime, drugs, gangs, greed etc...
How bad does it suck for people that scrimped and saved to be able to move and then come to face a grossly inflated housing market that they can't afford??..
Especially on Montana salaries? We are in the running for the LOWEST pay and LONGEST HOURS WORKED in the NATION.
And 75% of the newbies don't consider at all the impact they have on the people that have lived here for all or most of their lives. That sucks.
I can't think of a single friend or coworker out here that would turn a blind eye to someone new that was looking for friendship, advice, or opportunity regardless of where they came from, but at the same time almost everyone I know has had at least 2-3 bad run-ins with people trying to gather info from them, or to try to get them to sell out land that has been in their family for generations so they can divide it up and sell it for a profit. Some of them now taxed out and living in apartments instead of on their families ranches.. Makes ya sick.
I'm curious to see how others see this.
Comments??
Sorry its happening to Wonderful, Timeless Montana.
You know, when non isalanders visit Hawaii and want to go into a grocery store, the prices are a percentage higher unless you show some sort of ID card ( Not 100% sure). The idea is to protect the locals, keep prices low for those that LIVE there.
Point is, why cant a law be passed that states that if you have not lived in Montana for X years and you purchase realestate and sell\Flip it within X years, your tax rate is XX more.
I lived through this too. mid 80's in Dallas\Tarrant cty TX area.
Californians came in with fist full of dollars after recent sale of their home and new job transfer with American Air, EDS, Financial houses, etc and housing went way up. Builders slowley stopped offering 70-75k homes and started offering homes north of 100K.
A house should be something "LIVED IN" and a "LONG TERM" investment, not for what it is now. I despise these House Flippers that I see now on TV.
I consider House Flippers as low as "CRACK\METH Dealers".
Sorry its happening to Wonderful, Timeless Montana.
You know, when non isalanders visit Hawaii and want to go into a grocery store, the prices are a percentage higher unless you show some sort of ID card ( Not 100% sure). The idea is to protect the locals, keep prices low for those that LIVE there.
Point is, why cant a law be passed that states that if you have not lived in Montana for X years and you purchase realestate and sell\Flip it within X years, your tax rate is XX more.
I lived through this too. mid 80's in Dallas\Tarrant cty TX area.
Californians came in with fist full of dollars after recent sale of their home and new job transfer with American Air, EDS, Financial houses, etc and housing went way up. Builders slowley stopped offering 70-75k homes and started offering homes north of 100K.
A house should be something "LIVED IN" and a "LONG TERM" investment, not for what it is now. I despise these House Flippers that I see now on TV.
I consider House Flippers as low as "CRACK\METH Dealers".
Good luck.! Get those laws passed.!
Now that is a really good idea. I wonder what the tax rate is now for resales? Does Texas do anything like that?
A lot of people take advantage of the laws that have been here to help people make a living in the BI years. (Before Internet) I've even heard of RV sales people in other states that have helped people set up corporations in Montana to avoid paying taxes on their new $100K+ motor homes.
I'm with you on the house flippers.
It seems like wherever you have 1 person trying to make an honest living there are 3 trying to exploit the honest guy/gal's labors to try to make easy money.
Wow Watch the movie Wonderful Life !! Is it really like that. What if you come there and you just love people plus keeping to yourself and are very laided back with no what soever plans to ever change anything. Will people except you b/c I don't want my daughter to be miss treated because she is a outsider. She is not able to take up for herself and won't she would just crawl into a shell. Thanks pls reply KS
I've been reading all the posts listed here, and I want to throw something back to the fellow from Northern California, FlyGuy. I just need to clear the air. I am a southern California native surfer girl and am so sick of everyone generalizing about people in this part of the country. Most of the people you are referring to who are greedy and house flippers and what not are transplants here from all over the country and the world. It isn't fair to say we're the root of all causes because thats just an ignorant statement. As for me personally, I am moving to Montana as soon as I possibly can. My whole family is here and I cannot wait to get out of here. My fiance is a 4th generation Montanan, and inherited the family's ranch when his Dad passed a couple of years ago. It has been his lifelong desire to get back "home" and so thats where we're heading. I'm not moving there to take California with me - I'm moving to get away from all the B.S., the high prices, the immigration problems, the gas prices, the taxes, the traffic problems - all of which are caused by government ineptitude. I am 52 years old, healthy and vibrant, and still have many years left in me. I'm a nature-loving, environmentally concerned privacy-loving, gardening, horsebackriding, cattle-driving "professional" who is giving us the 6-figure salary to spend the rest of my years hunkered down with my man, fishing in our trout pond, dogsledding, chopping wood, sewing curtains, and fixing up the family homestead. I don't care if people don't like me or accept me, even though I know I'm one of the nicest people there is out there, honest, hardworking, simple, very non-LA - I've had a life of pleasing people and if stubborn, ignorant people choose to not like me without knowing me, so be it. I wish everyone would just take care of their own and mind their own business and stop picking on Californians like we're all drugged-out HOllywood types with big wallets and egos. We're not.
I meant to say that I am giving UP the 6-figure salary to lead a simpler life. If I make 1/3 of that at a part time job in my little town, lucky me. That's what I want. I dream about it every day.
I 100% agree. People can be very passive-aggresive, especially in The Flathead. It's one thing I don't miss about that area.
Yep, thats were I live. Born here, raised out of state (you know lousy economy), but have spent every summer of my life here visiting my couple 100 relatives. Moved back to a mile from my g-parents home place on land I bought 35 years ago. Was yelled at and told I was dumb when I complained when one neighbor washed away my driveway with his irrigation - won't talk to me since his insurance had to fix it. Another neighbor "wanted to shot me" since I wanted to move the fence that was 90 years old to the correct property line (I got back about an acre of my property he used for god knows how many years) --- I had to replace the whole fence at my cost since it was "just fine" according to the neighbor. And another neighbor and wife are old hippies --- don't like their privacy distributed (than means they can't use my pasture anymore to feed their cows) so she comes down when she is cranking on something, yells and threatens us with the sheriff "we have a personal connection in the sheriff's office" --- wow- I guess I am suppose to be afraid. Now, if you live in the big city this stuff wouldn't fly very well. Montana's a beautiful place --- its just some people who live here need a reality check -- they don't own it all, just their little piece, and they need to learn "to play with others".
I've been reading all the posts listed here, and I want to throw something back to the fellow from Northern California, FlyGuy. I just need to clear the air. I am a southern California native surfer girl and am so sick of everyone generalizing about people in this part of the country. Most of the people you are referring to who are greedy and house flippers and what not are transplants here from all over the country and the world. It isn't fair to say we're the root of all causes because thats just an ignorant statement. As for me personally, I am moving to Montana as soon as I possibly can. My whole family is here and I cannot wait to get out of here. My fiance is a 4th generation Montanan, and inherited the family's ranch when his Dad passed a couple of years ago. It has been his lifelong desire to get back "home" and so thats where we're heading. I'm not moving there to take California with me - I'm moving to get away from all the B.S., the high prices, the immigration problems, the gas prices, the taxes, the traffic problems - all of which are caused by government ineptitude. I am 52 years old, healthy and vibrant, and still have many years left in me. I'm a nature-loving, environmentally concerned privacy-loving, gardening, horsebackriding, cattle-driving "professional" who is giving us the 6-figure salary to spend the rest of my years hunkered down with my man, fishing in our trout pond, dogsledding, chopping wood, sewing curtains, and fixing up the family homestead. I don't care if people don't like me or accept me, even though I know I'm one of the nicest people there is out there, honest, hardworking, simple, very non-LA - I've had a life of pleasing people and if stubborn, ignorant people choose to not like me without knowing me, so be it. I wish everyone would just take care of their own and mind their own business and stop picking on Californians like we're all drugged-out HOllywood types with big wallets and egos. We're not.
Well good for you and your family. If you read my treads you would see that I did not say all of southren califorina people I said some. So lets clear that air. I think I also said that I too was sick of some of the things you have listed above traffic, ignorant people, taxes and etc..... Best of luck to you and your husband. Sorry if I said anything to rub you the wrong way.
Hey there, I'm right outside of Nashville right now.
My hubby and I have been looking at moving to Montana for a few years now. We're still considering it, but we're going to visit some time this summer. Anyways, I am originally from a small town on the gulf coast of Florida. I love hearing my granddaddy talk about how he and his brothers had to take boats to school every morning. That little school he went to when he was a kid is the same one still there today. Our ag class learned by helping the neighboring farmer behind the school. You went to the store and knew most of the people there. I'm only in my late twenties and remember this. Now, it's mostly people from New York who have come and done the same thing to our state. Taxes went up, home values went up, they got their fancy boats and polluted the rivers and greedily took too many scallops to where they had to close the season for several years. Homes that were huge to us on the river costed 150 k and now outsiders have bought they up and they're in the millions.They are starting to realize their mistakes, but they're going too far in the other direction. They enacted all these crazy rules that are hurting local fishermen who have fed their families out of the river for generations. They have people in florescent vests patrolling the rivers in canoes to "protect the manatees". We did that quite fine before everybody crowded in, thank you. The newcomers decided we were too isolated and lobbied to get part of a huge new road (like an intrastate instead of an interstate ). Now population is up, crime is up, cost of living is up....So yeah, I understand where you Montana folks are coming from. Now Tennessee is the new hot spot and they're all moving up here and doing the same thing. The town I'm in used to be a nice small town years ago (I'm told) and now it's strip malls and fancy developments. We're here because hubby is in the military and got stationed here, so we won't be here forever.
People are so quick to defend themselves, but the truth is there is always some truth to stereotypes. I don't dislike New Yorkers and they were welcomed into our community. I understand why they moved, I wouldn't want to live in New York either. I just think they should have adapted instead of trying to change things.
If we move to Montana, I'm not worried about not being accepted. People will get over it when they get to know us, and they won't have a choice because I'll be the one showing up on their door with a cake . But then, the things that attract me to Montana are the things that most people look at as downsides. I don't care about pretty views or shopping. I want to move for the way of life, not the lifestyle. I'm not rich and never will be. I'm just a simple woman married to a simple man raising our family up the best we can (didn't mean for that to rhyme!). So look out Montana-ians, if you end up my neighbor you're going to have more pies and cakes than you can handle until you warm up to us!!!
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jimj
). Now population is up, crime is up, cost of living is up....So yeah, I understand where you Montana folks are coming from. Now Tennessee is the new hot spot and they're all moving up here and doing the same thing. The town I'm in used to be a nice small town years ago (I'm told) and now it's strip malls and fancy developments. We're here because hubby is in the military and got stationed here, so we won't be here forever. 
. But then, the things that attract me to Montana are the things that most people look at as downsides. I don't care about pretty views or shopping. I want to move for the way of life, not the lifestyle. I'm not rich and never will be. I'm just a simple woman married to a simple man raising our family up the best we can (didn't mean for that to rhyme!). So look out Montana-ians, if you end up my neighbor you're going to have more pies and cakes than you can handle until you warm up to us!!!
