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I've been in NW Montana since July 2000 and I love it...I've been around the world, and trust me...this IS the most beautiful place on Earth.
This seems to be a Montana phenomena of sorts I've noticed ever increaingly of the last several year....., "I live in the most beautiful place in the world" personaly I don't get it, is the scenery nice here...."yes", is it the most beautiful place in the world.......not hardy, there are many beautiful places in amercia, drive thru wyoming for one.
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Yes, the Californians are moving up in droves...mostly just driving up the property prices around here...but for the most part, most of them are pretty conservative in nature and are just looking to "escape" like the rest of us.
"driving up the proberty prices" is an understatement to say the least. It is a very sad fact indeed when the children who grew up here can't even afford to buy a starter house in their own town.
There was a time in Montana when being on the low end of the income scale was easily tolerated here abouts, and one could take some comfort in the fact that they could buy a place cheap, even get 10 20 acres. One could take solice in the fact that they lived in a quiet and yet unspoiled place. As we use to say, "yea, we're broke, but we have a place to be and living is cheap".........so much for the good old days, and who do we have to thank for that.....you tell me.
There is nothing so ugly as watching something beautiful be raped and ruined before you eyes, and that is exactly what is happening here.
Am I being negative.......absolutely not, I'm just report on the very negative things that have happened and continue to happen here. Some people just want to shut their eyes to it, and gloss it over with "everyplace has it's issues".
There are much nicer places in this country to live where you don't have to watch on a daily basis everything and reason why you moved here in the first place be ruined. Every year a few more of my old fishing spots get fenced off, posted or built on, some place I don't even go anymore because I don't want to deal with the traffic.
Sorry if that upsets anyone, but that is the way it is here in western montana these days, and anyone who doesn't see it has their head in the sand and/or is part of the problem and expliot it (montana) for a buck.
I wonder what montana will be like with say 2mil people? depends on which side of the income line yer on. most of the sales of property are after the old boys die and the kids want the good money. GOD bless the ideals of the past and the way it was.
I have been here since November and I am still trying to make a decision on what I think about Montana and its people.
What do you mean? Please enlighten some of us future Montanans.
Mark: I don't know if 2 million people will make a huge difference or not in an area as large as MT(lets hope not). Where I am at in So Cal, there is probably about 30 million people within a few hours drive north or south. It's not a good thing by any means....especially when the infrastructure can't handle it. My case as an example.... I just recently had our whole house repiped in copper. The plumber checked the water pressure afterwards, and he told me congatulations you just set the new low water pressure in Norco at 25 PSI They just keep building without any thoughts on utility loads, roads, or anything else
Let's put a stop to the influx into MT, but wait till after I get there
I don't know if 2 million people will make a huge difference or not in an area as large as MT(lets hope not
John it is true that you don't know what will happen. So let me say this, just look at the impact that the recent increase of people has had on the state, the number being no where near 1 million, if life has changed so dramatically with say a 10-15-20 percent increase of late, I hate to see what a 100 percent increase would do. Could the infustructure, roads, etc be built, well sure, but that isn't the point.
Let's not forget the reason that makes Montana what it is in people's eye, it's the beauty, be it mountains or prarie, and a lot of the beauty lies in it's solitude and serenity. If you just like the sight of mountains, california, washington, etc, will do, they have mountains, many more dramatic than montana's.
I recall years ago when I would drive across the Madison valley in the dead of winter, even in a car on the 2 lane, the solitude was almost scarey. Those simple daily experiences create and leave an impression on one, they leave you with a sense of who you are, where you are, and what you are. The last time I drove thru the Madison valley, having not been there in so many years, it was heart breaking to see what it had become, and endless stream of houses, cabins, hobbie ranches, crippled the landscape. Was it crowded, not by some folks' standard, no not at all, and could we shove another 20,000 houses in there...you bet. And I'm sure some people can wait to get them in there $$$. And many of those resigned to doing the dirty deed will be those recently arrived and looking for a way to make a buck, so that they can stay in "god's country", and they'll passify themselfs with thoughts of "it's so beautiful here we need to get more people to move here to enjoy it"......that thinking is another strange phenomena I've noticed new comers seem to embrace.........My thought...."you moved here because it's open and beautiful and now you are willing to compramise it to make a buck"......a very strange phenomena indeed.
When the silence and solitude are gone, they are gone forever, and so is their inherint beauty. Witness the Flathead and Bitterroot valleys in western Montana.
But enough said for now.
Please share your thoughts.
Montana has never been able to provide sustained industry for very long.
Agriculture (farming) would be the only exception.
Every time *industry hits this state, it messes it up in some fashion or the other.......There is absolutely no difference. Logging, Mining, and now this latest little industry... Home Building.
People who just can't wait to get up here, for the most part, have no idea what they are setting themselves up for later on down the road.
Montana is and of itself, a very simple place, and runs by it's own simple rules. When industry fails here, all you are left with are the cool winters, the peace, the quiet, low wages and native Montana neighbors that really know how to survive.....
The laws of nature don't operate here like they do in many other states, 'cause when it's over, it's really over, and that's it. It goes away and never comes back.
Economics and the gross lack of infrastruture will, in the end, kill the current growth. We've seen this all before, all across the country and at various periods of time in history..... this is no different than the "internet bubble".. and we all know what happened when that thing burst. A bunch-o-folks lost o-bunch-o-money...... and when this latest little bubble in Montana pops??.... same thing. When this market collapses in on itself, the losers will be the ones that honeymooned in Montana too long with their big houses, gawdy SUV's, and their liberal ways..... This state will break those types in half economically. They will have to leave, because they'll be too broke to stay. And then, the whole state will end up being just like how Lewistown Montana is today... with every other house for sale.
So, if and when you get here, you might best prepare yourself for literally living simply. Don't bury yourself in high debt on some Montana Mansion, because when all is said and done around here, you'll have to find a job out of state that pays well, just to meet your mortgage obligation. The $500,000.00 house you bought yesterday, will only be worth $180,000.00 tomorrow.... or even less.
There's a reason why Montana has had such a small population over the years. When many other states have swelled in population beyond imagination, Montana has held true to it's simplicity.
It's all about location, location, location....... and Montana's location is such that prevents growth industries to exist.
Yes, Montana is indeed the last best place..... it's beautiful.
But, Montana's beauty won't ever pay the mortgage or put your kids through college.
When this is all over, it will leave it's own scar on the land.... just like The Pit, just like the vermiculite in Libby, just like all of the mercury piled in behind the Mill Town Dam........
Sort of ironic....... I don't drink the water in Libby..... I don't swim in the Clark Fork or the Blackfoot...... and I don't hunt or fish the area's around Butte.
I'm from here..... and I know what's gone on over the years to this place.
Last edited by GiftShoppeGuy; 01-30-2007 at 01:24 PM..
Reason: edited for content
Bravo, Bravo, Giftshopguy.......................well stated. I lived or ah survived the 80's depression here in montana.
And not to argue with you but to raise a point. As I see all this growth is just growth for growth sake, it's the new montana economy, and when it stops watch out, there will be some hurtin' puppies out there, like in the 80's. I just wish there would be a place we could go to and appluad them as they pack up their grap and hit the ol hiway with their tails tucked between their legs....."good luck and good riddens"
But anyway, there are a lot of people here now that don't need jobs, that's how they can afford to live here, because they don't need a job, from the workman/comp/welfare cases to the, I got the big lawsuit income, the inheritance folks, the trust-afarians, all the way up the ladder to the I raped the share holders corperate big shots, we got'em all now.
But hope springs eternal, and I hope it's more than just wishfull thinking that ol' Montana isn't on an endless ride to ruin.
Also, it IS not "the last best place"....it WAS "the last best place".....it is a far cry from what it was only a short time ago when that book came out.....and god don't get me started about the Montana books and movies, they've probably done as much if not more than anything to lead to this dimise, don't you feel like thrashing those people who are always trying to cash in on Montana and in the process help ruin it.
nuff said for now.
Oh PSS, you've heard that one..........."How do you leave montana with a millon dollars"..........................."come here with 2 million"
And when we do get another one of our *depressions..... those with the money won't be able to live as they did here. They won't be able to afford to be here for very long.... the money won't last for them.
See how they spend it now???... In the good times??....
My bottom buck says most of them will be pretty close to broke by the time we fall back into another Montana depression..... and they'll be falling all over themselves to leave, just like they did back in the 50's
We've "been there", "done that" when it comes to our home known to many as Montana.
It takes a bit more than a bank account and a new home to make it around here.
>>> you've heard that one..........."How do you leave montana with a millon dollars"..........................."come here with 2 million" <<<
There is more truth to that saying than most realize.
Last edited by GiftShoppeGuy; 01-30-2007 at 01:36 PM..
Well, it's beginning to sound more and more like my wife and I won't be welcome there, even though we are not going to have a McMansion, and we are going to have to work for a living. We have a 96 Suburban with 210,000 miles, that we use to haul the horse trailer (does that count as a bright shiny SUV?) a 95 GEO Prizm with 220,000 miles, and a 65 Corvette convertible (my hobby car), and a recently aquired 67 Ford pick up with a camper. We are not the "Rich" Californians, moving to MT to change things.
My wife and I, will be pushing 50 years old by the time we are ready to move, and the kids will be 18+, so it was going to just be me and her, and our horses. We were planning on a simple quiet existence, and planned to work for a living and be a positive contributing member of the community, not an agressive, overbearing, rude, demanding one.
I have also been through a depression era here as well in the early 90's when my house was worth less than I paid for it, got laid off, my (ex) wife was pregnant with our first kid, etc. I vowed to never find myself in that predicament again.... and I haven't, although I do have a little more debt, than I would like (paying to much support to the ex = $1800/month) but that's another story which will be looking up in the next few months.
So with my brief little explanation of where my wife and I's thought process is, will we, or will we not be welcomed there? We don't want to change things, we are not looking to make a buck, (other than to pay bills).
True there are mountains in Ca. but there is so much smog that you can't see them, unless you live in them. But then it would take me 3 hours to get to work with traffic...and it's only 70 miles from the mountains to where I work.
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They just keep building without any thoughts on utility loads, roads, or anything else
Bravo
