Montana relocation: resentment toward newcomers (home, buy, wages)

[lewisia rediviva]

Unfortunately what keeps Wally world and the other boxes out is strong communties, we also have lost to Wally World. Had we focused more on building small communities as opposed to magnetizing ourselves without the forsight to take care of our literally "widespread" needs we could have planned for and supported smaller neighborhood type businesses instead. We put Wally World on the ballot and the voters voted for it. Plainly because people were sick of driving to Missoula and getting stuck on Reserve street in order to stock their households. Traffic is so bad along 93 and Reserve that it is no longer an option to run into town and get a few things, it takes most of a day especially if you go on a weekend. They voted down development that provided small commercial ventures because people would live on quarter acre lots, and voted for WalMart, yet they're anti-sprawl - Go figure.

[youtalkinto_me2000]

The whole world is changing,,,,building and more people moving in,,,,here on whidbey island in washington,,,,,it is like we are loosing our woods here,,,on july 24,,,I am going home to visit and i know that it is not going to be like it was when i was a kid there,,,,and it is sad,,,,infact i would like to still move back to montana,,so quiet,,,,,or has that changed too,,,,lol

[jimj]

So Lewisia taking the jist of your statements I would think that you are for the new developement across from the new high school off reserve? You know, the starling project that will put 3000 homes on one square mile? Stacked apartments,stacked town houses and 0 lot lines.
The issue I have with your statements is I have seen it before. Travel from Sacrament CA to Stockton CA and you will see nothhing but houses packed together with pretty much no space between them. One long city for miles and miles and miles. Granted, it will take a while for somehing like that to happen here but if you push high density every available inch will eventually be sold and built on. People are funny animals, they have free will and while you will get some to live like a bunny in a cage there will be a lot that won't so there needs to be a place for them as well. I can see dense housing in city around a downtown core but as you move away from the downtown core that needs to drop away to something more realistic.
As for living closer to services am I to take that as a vote in favor of Bucky Wolfords mall? That would slow the need to drive to Missoula right?

[dangerousdan]

What's really unfair is that if you support the mall, you're an evildoer newbie. If you're against the mall, you're a NIMBY newbie. Lose lose situation.

[jimj]

Weird situation isn't it?
What cracks me up is the big fight from the anti=bucky crowd to stop it only to end with a "okey dokey" go ahead BUT it must be open air and spread way out so people have to drive around and waste more fuel,idle their cars more and slip and slide just to go to the stores. They should build it enclosed which would allow a multitude of people to excersize during the winter and park so they can enter at a single point instead of driving from store to store. They also should do something else with that waste of space mall downtown that has gotten dollar after dollar from the city to develope only to stagnate.

[jimj]

I just read one of the best news articles on growth that I have read in a while. It was on the front of the perspective page in today's daily interlake. I suggest reading it and maybe we could all at least come to a consensus that it made sense. Happy reading

[Heart]

Originally Posted by lewisia rediviva

I think us natives welcome the growth, it has been both good and bad.
Before the growth the whole state was backwards and cultureless.

Oh I disagree! Montana has always had a culture of it's own. Remember, I have been up here years ago.

What out of staters fail to realize is that you don't need 5 acres or more to be a Montanan.

I don't believe the desire to want land and space of one's own has anything to do with wanting to be a "Montanan".

You also need to realize that you probably do live in a subdivision. ( anything less than 160 acres is a subdivision in Montana )

I'm quite aware of what a subdivision is, and I'm *not* living in a subdivision.

I would personally rather see people move in and live on smaller pieces of ground I don't care how many people come here as long as we stop this notion of living like magnets and getting as far away from each other as possible and using up every inch of available land.

Really? I wouldn't. I would rather see people spread out if they are coming. Ever been to California?? The homes are so close together in some areas you feel like you are living on a dumping ground of pollution and people. Sorry, but I disagree. I wouldn't want to see homes built close in proximity of one another, clogging up everyone else's space. You forget, that is WHY people are coming here. They want space, they want land.

The bottom line is people like you move here to get away from such things as pollution, traffic, crowds etc and in the long run, you create the pollution by utilizing an anequated septic that you probably never service, by living several miles from the nearest services and needing to drive several miles on impervious surfaces to get anywhere, polluting both the ground water and the air and increasing the traffic.

Since you are addressing me, I don't appreciate your tone here at all. "People like you". Let me tell you something. I left California due to illness and the inability to continue living in an expensive area. So let's just get the clear, and please remember in the future when you address me on this forum, use a little respect. The same respect I show everyone else here or those I meet offline in the real world.

Secondly, my husband has had quite an opportunity to meet some locals of Montana with his job. And due to his continous communications with some locals, he has learned quite alot. There are ALOT of drunk drivers up here. And let's not pretend that Montana has been rated as most deadly highways in the country. We have already been in near misses, MORE SO than when I lived in Ca. I have nearly been hit head on by a wreckless driver TWICE already up here. Then the guy comes into my husband's work, drunk out of his mind. So....

People like me, don't drive drunk. I also don't throw my trash out the car window onto the highways, as my husband observed a certain local he met and knows through his job. We are good and respectful people, who respect this land, and regardless of whatever you want to ASSUME of transplants, just stop assuming you know everything about every single person coming up here. Thanks!

And for those whom live in the Bitterroot, we then send at least 20,000 cars down the highway to Missoula per day increasing both our traffic problems and creating a nightmare for Missoulians on Reserve street because we have nowhere else to shop.

Ohhh I remember when Reserve didn't stretch as far as it did, years ago, containing Ross, Barnes and noble, starbucks, and the lot. But you natives cannot blame it ALL on the transplants. Somewhere along the lines, Missoulians LET those people in. You vote right? You are active in your city's affairs? Then don't complain to me, complain to your law makers, and those you elected into office.

A 5 acre piece of land with a family any livestock and or a dog is too small to farm or ranch, breaks up viewsheds, as well as decreases wildlife corridors throughout the area. 400 homes on 5 acres is 2,000 acres of wasteland where 400 homes on 600 acres saves 1200 acres of land from development, leaves farmable sized land, retains wildlife corridors, decreases impervious surfaces, utilizes a state of the art sewage treatment facility that is cleaner than a city sewer upon release, can incorporate service within to decrease traffic, and preserves the view shed for the rest of us.

My husband's family is not situated on five acres, so I wouldn't know.

There is also a notion that you need to drive a really big truck and also own a suburban as well if you are going to be a real cowboy. when actually this too creates more pollution and breaks up the roads faster so we need to use even more fossil fuels than we would if people would just drive normal cars, my favorite bumper sticker of all time read: "Real Montanans don't need four wheel drive"

That's funny. I remember many years ago before the population boom seeing my fair share of locals driving their big trucks (four wheel drives) and gas eating mini vans and the like. Just stop blaming it all on the newcomers. It's becoming an old song.
As for driving a four wheel drive, I WANT one so I can navigate on the snow. And I drove one when I lived in Alaska and the harsh winters in the midwest. It has nada to do with being in Montana. I assure you.

The bottom line is the bigger the lots the faster an area becomes developed and therefore suburban, the more closely knit we build our housing needs, the more open space and less pollution we create for the entire community. Look at the Bitterroot for example, it's probably one of the nations biggest per square mile of land suburbs around. Sure some people still have pigs and junked cars in their yard giving it a rural twang, but the people who think it's rural don't know what rural is and need to pull their heads out of their a-doubles and stop being so selfish or the whole state will look this bad.

Maybe some people will be forced to clean up their filthy yards. Who knows. I can't stand filth and a junked up yard. But hey, that's me. I like my living area not looking like a pig stye. It's not good for the earth or environment to leave junk laying everywhere on the ground anyway.

As for the population boom in the Bitterroot, there is nothing no one can do about it, unless they get out there and let their voice be heard, instead of griping about it on message forums. And honestly, I have met alot of locals who want that walmart in Hamilton. It is a shame. And people say californians are bad. At least Berkeley fought them and stopped Wal mart from coming in. At least they are a smart city and have found ways to stop the big box stores from taking over. Nope, they have their little mom and pop shops that do just well. Maybe montanans can take a lesson from Berkeley.

[Heart]

Originally Posted by lewisia rediviva

We put Wally World on the ballot and the voters voted for it. Plainly because people were sick of driving to Missoula and getting stuck on Reserve street in order to stock their households.

Yep! So now what you will have once wal-mart goes in, is increased traffic and pollution and people coming in from Darby, Stevensville, Victor, Corvalis, etc.

Traffic is so bad along 93 and Reserve that it is no longer an option to run into town and get a few things, it takes most of a day especially if you go on a weekend.

I whole heartedly disagree. I go into Missoula weekly to do my shopping and it is not a whole day process. That traffic is nothing in comparison to the gridlock traffic I used to live in.

They voted down development that provided small commercial ventures because people would live on quarter acre lots, and voted for WalMart, yet they're anti-sprawl - Go figure.

yep, lots of natives voted and got what they have now. So who can keep on complaining now about urban sprawl, when they allow wal mart in ??

[jimj]

Thank you Heart for adding a little common sense and civility to this thread! There is no reason for any of these discussions to degenerate to the level they have IMO.
The internet does this to people, the anonymity of this place seems to give people license to talk in such a way to each other that they would never do face to face. Maybe it is what some are really thinking (that's a depressing thought) or maybe it's just people trying to stir up trouble for intertainment purposes. Either way it would be nice if it settles down. I have no problem with educated debate, but that debate ends when it lowers to personal attacks and hate mongering not to mention the appearence that some are giving the world about the people in montana..... Not a pretty sight to be sure.

[Heart]

Originally Posted by jimj

Thank you Heart for adding a little common sense and civility to this thread! There is no reason for any of these discussions to degenerate to the level they have IMO.
The internet does this to people, the anonymity of this place seems to give people license to talk in such a way to each other that they would never do face to face. Maybe it is what some are really thinking (that's a depressing thought) or maybe it's just people trying to stir up trouble for intertainment purposes. Either way it would be nice if it settles down. I have no problem with educated debate, but that debate ends when it lowers to personal attacks and hate mongering not to mention the appearence that some are giving the world about the people in montana..... Not a pretty sight to be sure.

Thank you. The hot weather made me a bit snippy there. LOL

I'm praying we get a breather soon.