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Silk and I know each other. It's a coincidence that we ran into each other on this site. HerdGirl is his wife.
Indeed, what a coincidence! Glad to see you posting over here CT. HerdGirl is doing fine, she is almost 2 months pregnant now and has a lot of morning sickness. How about that pic of Tyler on the jumbo screen, lol?
First off, glad you came back CT because I really didn't think that you would. Also, much better posts this time around because you actually made some good civil posts using your experience and opinions with some facts. I called your first post unintelligent because it came across as very inflammatory and arrogant in tone and to me, that is unintelligent. I've also read your negative posts on other forums as well and your distaste for MU comes across well in those posts, MU grad or not. I'm very aware that you didn't mention MU in your intial post and if you'll notice in mine, I said that your post was directed at MU. Never said you named it directly. And Marshall is more than a regional university. Having students from all 50 states and several different countries is more than a "regional" university. MU has one of the top Forensics programs in the nation and is the only university to have a certified human DNA lab. They have recently partnered with the state police to become the 2nd official state crime lab and they have encouraged WVU to do the same. The Marshall school of medicine is also one of the top med schools in the nation and was tied with the University of Flordia for producing the most family medicine doctors in the nation. Thanks to the growth at the Med school, Cabell Huntington has become one of the top orthopedics programs in the nation and the best in WV. The performing arts program also has national recognition and is one of the top 50 performing arts programs in the country. I hardly think a "regional" university could make those claims. And in terms of the deal they made with the company for the new dorms and rec center, how else are they supposed to grow since the state offers no money for such projects? This state does have the ability to support more than one great university but like many aspects of this state, they like to put all of their eggs in one basket. I earned my degree WVU so I'm well aware of their situation as well as MUs. I think the universities should work together more but anytime MU tries to grow, WVU does what it can to stomp it out for fear of competition. Look at their campain against the MU school of Medicine. Look at how they spoke out to stop the law school. MU isn't trying to be WVU, they are merely trying to grow.
In terms of this statement
"The reason for the big city feel that is not felt anywhere else in the State is the cultural events and activities associated with The University. There are literally plays (including broadway plays), concerts, athletic events, and endless groups with which to be associated as well educational opportunities not found elsewhere in the State. There are more top notch restaurants there, and more coming along."
You obviously haven't researched this statement. Huntington and Marshall together offer some wonderful cultural events. We have the largest art museum between Pittsburgh, Cincinatti and Richmond. The Keith Albee PAC hosts the Marshall artists series as well as other events on it's own. They frequently host broadway plays and are working to transform the play house so that it can offer first run braodway plays on a consistent basis. It's also the home to the Huntington Symphony Orchestra and all of the wonderful performances that they put one. Huntington, Charleston and Wheeling are the only WV cities to have their own orchestra. We also have the Huntington Civic Arena here which brings in national acts as well and also hosts other things like the circus, arts and craft fairs and antique shows. The restaurants here are varied and growing with a good mix of local and chain restaurants and some GREAT ethnic restaurants. And if you think Huntington's downtown is dying, you obviously haven't been here in awhile. Pullman Square has breathed new life into downtown and has been the state's only lifestyle center for the last 4 years. It's a 60 million dollar complex that offers a theater, comedy club, shopping, banking and restaurants, many of which are among the top in their chains. There is also a lot of redevelopment going on in most of the buildings downtown and many are being renovated and turned into condos for downtown living. The airport here is one of the few in the country to be experiencing growth and last year, was the fastest growing airport in the nation based on passenger increases. TTA, public transportation, has seen tremendous growth lately and has added services to the 2 surrounding states and is also getting ready to start service between Huntington and Charleston. The Huntington Mall is the largest in the state and I could go on. So although your post was better, it was still full of misinformation. I also find it funny that someone who lives in CT would try to compare the growth giong on in 2 WV cities. I live in Huntington so I see the growth first hand and my wife's family lives in Morgantown so I visit there frequently as well. Since you're out of state now, here are some links that you might like to see. Again, glad you came back and better posts this time around.
Tim
Bailey, ... there you go, trying to make it some kind of competition between Marshall and West Virginia. You just know you aren't going to win that way. First of all, I am NOT against Marshall. I'm a Marshall alum who believes in many ways the school is headed in the wrong, counter productive direction. They have a keep up with the Jones attitude that will forever keep them dependent on handouts from the State and will likely continue to harm overall quality.
If your professors are some of the poorest paid in the Nation, you don't encourage quality by adding more and more programs. You use your resources to upgrade faculty pay so you can enhance quality with what you already have in place. Marshall has added a poorly funded engineering program to go along with a couple of doctoral programs. They have also reduced tuition for almost every student to the in-state level, or close to it. The net result... enrollment is actually lower than it was 5 years ago. Their approach is not working, and they are losing good faculty because they can't pay them enough when they are pissing money away on programs that are not needed... programs that don't build enrollment and for which the demand has not been clearly demonstrated.
Look at the move to 1A in football. If you take the Pruett scandal years out of it, how has that worked out? They were better off being Champions of AA than they are as an also ran at the A level where they are losing money. Even the attendance at games has not improved with the change in status. The only thing that has changed is they are spending more money and getting no more for it.
I never said Marshall, or Huntington doesn't have anything. I also didn't say nothing went on there. I am very familiar with Huntington, and still have friends there. I only said a lot more is going on in Morgantown, and that is the truth. Not only is the climate very different... a growth mentality and situation instead of a declining one, the basic underpinnings are very different. If you have a school with nearly 29,000 students (nearly all of them resident students on the Morgantown campus) and compare that with a school with 12,500 students (9,900 of them, mostly commuters, on the Huntington campus) you are going to get a huge difference in activities participation level. That is nothing against Marshall, it is just stating the obvious.
And, nothing against the Huntington symphony. Nothing against the Wheeling or the Charleston symphonys either. But they are not the Pittsburgh symphony, which plays their concerts in Morgantown as well as in Pittsburgh. Wheeling symphony plays there too, but the Pittsburgh is at another level as you might imagine. And, Huntington does have a nice art museum. It will still be nice when WVU is finished building their new one, but it will no longer be the biggest one between Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. One nice thing about Morgantown though is you are only an hour from the several museums in Pittsburgh.
I am familiar with Marshall's forensic science program. They developed it because they felt they had to in order to keep up with WVU. It didn't increase enrollment either. I'm not saying it is a poor program. The association with the State Police is nice. West Virginia has one that is at a different level. Theirs is associated with the FBI. They are tied in with the operation in Clarksburg where the national criminal identification system is located. I really don't know much about it other than that, but suspect they are not really that interested in duplicating the State's criminal lab (I happen to know a Trooper who works there). I do know that demand is very high for participating in the program at WVU and it is not easy to get accepted into it.
Marshall is NOT a national university. Having some students from all over the country does not, in itself, fit that category. A national university is research intensive, has a doctoral emphasis (not just two or three programs) and recognition by peers as being that kind of institution. There is nothing wrong with being a good regional institution. Marshall is still one of those, but if they keep messing around they will ruin that and become an also ran in that regard too. You can only spread the same butter so thin before eventually you can't taste it at all.
West Virginia is a good national university that is getting better. It is doing so naturally, not artificially. You don't see them jumping around adding programs helter skelter. They develop programs from a position of demand, and even then won't do so if it affects existing programs. They have their ducks in a row, while Marshall is putting their cart before the horse. That is the difference. If you can't see that, I'm sorry. But, don't feel bad... Kopp doesn't see it either, or he pretends he doesn't so he can appease the locals with whom he associates.
What you are doing is confusing my criticism of the way the Marshall Administration is conducting business with whether or not I like or support Marshall. You are off base there. One is not contingent on the other. What I am saying is they are actually hurting Marshall, not helping it, with some of those policies. You don't have to agree with me, but that is my opinion and it is not "negative" about Marshall as you suppose. From my point of view, I would be remiss if I didn't point out what I see as mistakes.
I fully agree with your attitude that cooperation would be better. From what I can see it is the Marshall folks who are standing in the way of that. Instead of supporting WVU for their many accomplishments and sharing in the glory, they constantly criticize and gripe because WVU has something they don't have. If Marshall were to understand their role and work to be the best they can be at it, and if they were to seek cooperation with WVU I guarantee you they would get it. With the crybaby approach the current people running the place use all they get is grudging cooperation and disdain.
Bailey, I've seen Pullman Square. I was actually in Huntington several times last year. If you live in Huntington and have been in Morgantown recently, I don't know how you could compare the growth rates? You must know that it is like apples and oranges. Morgantown is growing MUCH faster, and in spite of Huntington fixing up some old buildings and building Pullman, I am not certain it is growing at all. After all, the old buildings were already there and they had to tear something else down to build Pullman. I do know that Huntington is not gaining population and Marshall is not gaining students.
Marshall's overall enrollment is down because of the split with the community and technical college. The two used to be counted together, now they are not. Freshman enrollment is increasing though and by adding more programs, they are adding Marshall to the list for more students. Marshall is becoming more attractive to students with more programs and better facilities. They are increasing their research initiatives and doing as much as they can to become a more research focused university. They are also making more money in C-USA than they did in the MAC. The problem there has been a step down in the quality of the coach. If you add more programs, better facilities and thus more students, then you have more tuition coming in and can afford to pay the teachers more. I think Marshall has to do things like this to grow and I like the direction they are going in. And for the record, MU forensics program started in 1994 while WVUs started in 1997, so who was playing catch up by adding that degree?
http://forensics.marshall.edu/MUFSC/default.html (broken link) http://wvutoday.wvu.edu/news/page/6873/
Morgantown is currently seeing more growth than Huntington, no doubt. But what you are failing to realize is that the 2 weren't on a level playing field to begin with. Morgantown was just declared the main city of a micropolitan area in 2000 so in essence, it just showed up on the map to developers. Things that Morgantown is just getting, Huntington has had for 5, 10 or even 15 years. So while they are developing more currently, they are still playing catch up. If you'll notice too, this development is beginning to slow. Planned buildings aren't being built downtown like the one where the old Greyhound station was. And apartments/condos are being put on hold or stopped without explanation as to why. Then there's the Suncrest Towncentre that is being built even though the developer has been unable to find tennants and the ones that he had backed out because they saw the area becoming oversaturated. But he's building it anyway. Also, even though there is new development, you haven't mentioned what it's done to the existing businesses. Many have closed or are on the verge of it because they can't compete in such a small market. And you'll never convince me that it's better to have another city's symphony visit than it is to have your own. When you have to rely on another city's/area's merits to count as your own, it will never be as good as having it yourself. And for where they are going to build that new WVU art museum, the HMA will likely still be the largest in the state.
I'll limit this because I think that we are just going to have to agree to disagree, or else this could go on forever. The good thing is though, that we are both able to show signs of growth, culture and a positive attitude that are happening in WV. Hopefully, that will continue to be the case and I have great confidence that it will.
Tim
Last edited by tbailey1138; 11-01-2008 at 05:21 AM..
Suncrest Towne Center...Almost 2000 condos and townhouses within a mile and more being built on the Adrian Farm...Morgantown is not being over built...it's gathering in the people and doing a good job of that...where they live is where they spend their money...
The 3 cities do not really compare...that is the fact..perhaps, Huntington and Mo-town more so than C-town...btw, the word is out that work is in Wv...lots of people coming...
btw, the word is out that work is in Wv...lots of people coming...
Darn, I, for one, have to quit telling people about the work here. Shall we stand at the borders with our shotguns and keep them out? At the very least, hand them a set of rules on how they must conform to our ways or they are not welcome:
Rules:
1. Do not come here and mock our way of living or people
2. You must be friendly
3. No snobs allowed entry
4. You must leave any "Orange County Attitude" at the border - we laugh at people like that
4. Don't come here and whine/gloat about how great things were in your home state
5. Leave drug problems outside the border - we have enough of our own
6. Be polite when driving and you HAVE to learn to maneuver the hills, curves, snow, and mountains
7. No tailgating (except at football games) or driving in packs to avoid getting stopped for speeding (we don't have THAT many cops on the highway)
8. If you have multiple vehicles in your family, at least 1 has to be a pickup truck
9. You must own at least one blue and gold outfit - becoming a fan of WVU is a requirement (green outfit and fan of Marshall is accepted replacement)
10. You must learn to like at least one of the following: Coleslaw on hot dogs, ramps, pepperoni rolls,
11. At least one member of your family has to learn to hunt and every home has to have at least 1 shotgun for hunting (even if you never actually go hunting)
Morgantown is not being over built...it's gathering in the people and doing a good job of that...
Then why did they build 2 nice new grocery stores only to have 3 old ones close? Bi-Lo turned to Foodland and then closed. Foodlion in Sabraton closed. Foodland on the mileground closed. Mountain peoples co-op announced a closing but through charity benefits will be able to stay open but for how long? A nice new movie theater was built by Target and the one at the mall was expanded so the company tapped for the Suncrest Towncentre backed out because the area was deemed at capacity. The developer still insists a movie theater is going in there. He's not been able to get any of the type of development that he wants in there because Morgantown is untested for the types of stores that he wants. But he still built anyway. I've also noticed that several local eateries have closed and while some have been re-opened, some have not. But again, how long can they stay open. My only concern with this is that sometimes the "if you build it they will come" mentality can backfire and set you back in terms of growth. I don't want to see this happen to any city or company in WV. HealthSouth there did this and recently had to let 14 employees go. They predicted growth that didn't happen. Ruby also seems to be having trouble like this as procedures are down and they are having trouble finding surgeons. I hope Morgantown is successful with these things like you say and you can say I told you so. Only time and the market will tell.
Cinemas Enjoy Era of Expansion - www.statejournal.com (http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=923 - broken link)
Ruby's problems began with our current political administration...about 2 years in the wages froze or were reduced...about a dollar or two per hour on the service jobs and the professionals held at a minimum...that led to the same mentality at Mon General and the others...people follow that dollar trail and went elsewhere...then a really big problem came to Ruby and they have not been able to contain it yet...
as for surgeons...they follow a money trail too...if it's narrow and tight...they go elsewhere...and the money is driving their speciality as fewer are getting those degrees each year...to much court time for malpractice...whether unfounded or not...easier to practice general medicine and forget the surgery...
The Bilo and Food Lion had been doing crap for business for YEARS before they finally died. I was shocked to see them open for as long as they were. Both were taken out by Kroger as Kroger had a larger, nicer, cheaper store within 1/4 mile of both smaller chains. That's not really a result of less overall grocery demand as it is a larger chain gaining a monopoly...
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